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[Music]

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hello and welcome to another edition of

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paranormal Prevention's I'm David Young

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and I'm contrary to some of the rumors

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that is not me chanting on the theme

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music anyway I've got a fantastic guest

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for you today peter robbins i'm sure

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many of you will know at that name and

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he's got some fascinating things to talk

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about here so i think i'll waste no more

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time I'm gonna introduce mr. peter

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robbins you there Peter I know hello

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Pete sounds lovely to speak to you I

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think we'll just will to start by saying

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how did you originally become interested

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well it was not an interest that I chose

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I guess you could say it goes back to

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adolescence when I was a very nerdy

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little American kid growing up in a

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village about 30 miles east of New York

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City where I was born and lived most of

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my life with very unsophisticated my

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collecting rocks and bugs and stamps I I

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read a lot of books I was a boy scout a

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very innocent time in America to a great

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degree and certainly for me and I have

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two great sisters my sister Helen passed

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in the year 2000 but at the time we were

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playing on the front lawn and just

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goofing around as kids do sometimes it

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was late morning beautiful either late

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spring or early summer day not a cloud

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in the sky and I caught something out of

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my right peripheral vision in the sky

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and called her attention to it with

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either

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saying look or Helen I've relived this

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event years after the fact three times

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with in three different hypno

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therapeutic sessions to confirm for

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myself the details of it and out of the

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upper right of our field of vision five

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silvery white disc shaped objects

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elliptical like holding a dinner plate

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at a slight angle you know away from

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yourself came roaring in without a sound

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and a very precise kind of v as in

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Victor V formation and it was it was

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completely riveting

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in fact I guess you could say the most

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impacting moment of my life in terms of

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the effect it had on it they were close

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enough that we could both see that they

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were metallic not shiny bright like

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stainless steel you know like a brushed

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aluminum maybe subdued but metallic and

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also close enough that we could both

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clearly make out regular detailing

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around the edge of each that was lighter

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that after the fact the only thing I

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could compare it to was windows on a

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commercial airplane at a crucible

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distance and we looked and we looked and

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we looked and we didn't say a word to

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each other we were standing about six

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feet apart from each other she to my

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left but I have a very clear memory of

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the reaction that I experienced and it's

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one that I have certainly documented or

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confirmed with I'm sure more than a

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hundred people over the years in various

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investigations I've come to call it the

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checklist reaction and it's simply a

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matter of all of a sudden your attention

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is call

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to a unfamiliar object or objects above

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you and your logical mind clicks through

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everything that they are not in your

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experience planes kites blimps balloons

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helicopters strange shaped clouds

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reflections from the ground you know

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birds flotsam and jetsam and again I'm

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an adolescent 1314 years old

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the only take I had ever had one more

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thing oh gee you know kids are so

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interested in this stuff and it captures

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every young person's imagination it

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really was not something I had given any

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real thought to except the fun that it

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was to get scared in you know the movies

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that I saw growing up but our little

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local theater and occasionally on

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television this was long enough ago that

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it was the age of the Golden Age of

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American B movies low production values

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usually black and white yeah and I I

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knew that flying saucers as the term was

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back then I it was already UFOs

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officially but I Millie with flying

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saucers that they were real in the

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movies but I guess I had intuited the

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adult world's message that they were

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fantasy and that was fine with me it

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just never went beyond them many years

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ago in trying to attack the credibility

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of this account that my sister and I had

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gone public with the arch American

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debunker Philip Glass suggested that I

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had a subconscious memory of an issue of

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Life magazine some years before that was

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a big weekly in America for decades I'm

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not even sure what I could compare it to

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but that I had heard about the Betty and

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Barney Hill abduction which was in fact

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broke through into popular culture

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rather than just ufology when the event

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became public in 1965 that it happened

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in 61 and that that somehow had been

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activated for me and my overactive

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little mind and my sisters or that you

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know these movies had had that kind of

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influence on me that Ellen and I needed

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to feel special he writes about that he

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wrote about this he's gone now I'm

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pleased to say in a book called UFO

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abductions a dangerous game and it's

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something that I found myself at one

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point and joking with Travis Walton

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about because he tried to take us down

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in different chapters in the same book

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anyway um we're looking and looking and

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looking and I go through everything I

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think they are in my mind and then in my

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14 year old reality I start to feel very

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desperate and quite a loneliness I can

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only describe as almost cosmic where

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somebody else might feel a cosmic

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connection with the universe I also knew

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because flying saucers were the subject

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of humor in American popular culture at

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the time and to a degree still same in

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the UK that this was a subject that you

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could be made fun of for taking

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seriously I understood that yes and I

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was just again a short geeky glass

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wearing kid not into sports I had enough

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issues on my plate desperately wanted a

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girlfriend or some kind of you know

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adolescent sexual contact and I also

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understood that if I told one girl about

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this every girl in my town would know

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and I never get to make out with any of

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them in my life and I'm only half

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kidding

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these were the things that were

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going through my mind at the time and it

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went on and on they just sat there and

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for what Helen and I ultimately judge

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was a matter of minutes which is forever

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especially in kid time and at a certain

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point David I had had it my anxiety had

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peaked to such a point that I turned on

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my heels and went to run into the house

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to tell her mom who was in the kitchen

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making lunch for us and I have had

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people kind of stop me here in relating

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this narrative and say come on this is

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the most amazing moment you've ever had

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in your life you know logically they're

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gonna disappear at any point how could

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you take your eyes off them my sister's

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reaction by the way was just that she

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couldn't take her eyes off them and was

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not feeling anxious a bit younger than

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me still on the cusp of childhood not

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feeling threatened by this this is

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something that I only learned about 14

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years later because that memory was

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repressed and when it came back my life

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changed that day dramatically but in the

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moment I had had it and was running into

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the house to tell mom and then several

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things happen in the same moment I was

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running diagonally across our front lawn

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to where it intersected with the

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concrete walkway that was just you know

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a few meters from our front door and

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within two or three seconds and I'm

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moving at pretty fast kids speed there I

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had an experience I had never had before

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or since and it was so profound that it

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completely took my attention away from

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the most amazing thing that I had just

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seen in my life a second before which

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was I felt as though I was running

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through honey or molasses everything

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seemed to slow down so dramatically that

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I I was really completely taken by it

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no fear no anxiety it was simply

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fascinating and my last three memories

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before everything went blue for a split

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second and then went black and I passed

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out or was knocked out or we want to see

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it were number one my mother was a great

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gardener and her hydrangea bushes in the

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front of the house were just beautiful

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that day what I was not aware of so to

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say was my motor functioning was not

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really working at this moment I was

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going down I was falling down in slow

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motion and again no fear just fascinated

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and at that point the sidewalk the

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concrete walkway is starting to get

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closer and closer and my vision is fixed

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on the scoring mark you know how they

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score sidewalks I I think in the UK too

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and on all the sidewalks they break up

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ants make their little civilizations

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there and this little ant colony is

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starting to get bigger and bigger in my

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eyes bugs fascinated me I'm nice it's

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more interested as a kid I mean this is

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all what was going on in this matter of

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seconds and I think it's important to

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share because there are people out there

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saying this is really interesting or I'm

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not sure if I buy this guy or oh my god

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I remember the same thing happening to

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me in so many words when I had my

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experience and my thought there was oh

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look colony of ants when I was a little

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kid I killed a lot of them and then had

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this epiphany that you shouldn't kill

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bugs because they're living things and I

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had I don't do that and my aunt and then

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my very last thought before everything

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you know the lights turned out was what

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a beautiful day this is not you know

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their five UFOs having disguises right

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there

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it it makes no logical sense at all

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in the many years that I worked as Budd

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Hopkins assistant

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I lost count of the number of first hand

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very credible accounts on this variation

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of G my attention is taken off onto this

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goofy thing and I'm not scared I'm just

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having a good time now or a moment ago I

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was highly anxious looking at something

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that represented the entire unknown in

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bang I'm out well at a certain point I

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wake up and my first sense of things was

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a wave of anger that I quickly repressed

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because nice children are not brought up

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to you know be really angry and I

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realized that there was kind of a

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throbbing in my right forearm now I say

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this with the understanding of having

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audio tapes of me reliving this and

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years later when I decided to explore

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this in regressive hypnosis I waited

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until I was really ready and I had

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access to several extraordinary

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practitioners of regressive hypnosis one

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being Budd Hopkins my mentor and the

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best known and most respected leader

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father figure in a way of rational

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scientific investigation of this very

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complex aspect of UFO studies the

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abduction phenomena the other was

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another mentor who was a tough

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no-nonsense italian-american New York

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00:15:36,590 --> 00:15:31,770
City police detective I mean a real

274
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:36,600
American archetype and Detective

275
00:15:41,780 --> 00:15:39,090
Sergeant Pete Missoula who was a crack

276
00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:41,790
UFO investigator but also a highly

277
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:47,460
decorated cop and in the 1970s had been

278
00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:49,530
trained when three cops as I recall

279
00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:51,030
trained by the New York City Police

280
00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:55,740
Department to do hypnotic regression for

281
00:16:02,540 --> 00:15:59,220
criminal investigation and he was the

282
00:16:05,180 --> 00:16:02,550
first person I knew that was doing it

283
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:05,190
with witnesses experiences

284
00:16:12,170 --> 00:16:07,850
abduct ease and then using the

285
00:16:14,570 --> 00:16:12,180
voice-stress technology apparatus at the

286
00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:14,580
John Jay College of Criminal Justice in

287
00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:19,710
New York City now you can get polygraph

288
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:21,840
hardware that you can put on your laptop

289
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:25,110
back then this was major and different I

290
00:16:32,780 --> 00:16:28,970
only bring this up because people

291
00:16:36,020 --> 00:16:32,790
experience hypnosis in different ways it

292
00:16:38,090 --> 00:16:36,030
can be resistant and you're you in the

293
00:16:41,180 --> 00:16:38,100
moment and you're watching yourself

294
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:41,190
cautiously at a distance or you could be

295
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:45,060
like me and be that person again

296
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:50,160
completely and it was looking back on it

297
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:52,170
is one of the most remarkable things I

298
00:16:58,580 --> 00:16:55,110
ever experienced it about let my late

299
00:17:02,300 --> 00:16:58,590
20s there I am being 14 years old again

300
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:02,310
and the upshot of that David was using

301
00:17:10,420 --> 00:17:07,530
language recorded words phrases that I

302
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:10,430
hadn't used in decades well you know

303
00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:15,410
decade and a half mind-blowing and

304
00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:18,120
anyway thinking like an adolescent as

305
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:22,230
well so I feel this pulsation feeling in

306
00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:24,900
my right forearm and I'm on the ground I

307
00:17:32,810 --> 00:17:28,380
lift it up and I see that oh I I skidded

308
00:17:35,780 --> 00:17:32,820
into the ground when I fell and my I

309
00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:35,790
scraped my forearm on the sidewalk on

310
00:17:41,150 --> 00:17:38,820
the concrete now adults don't think this

311
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:41,160
way and I don't think girls or women

312
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:43,170
ever think this way well then I take

313
00:17:46,220 --> 00:17:43,770
that back

314
00:17:49,010 --> 00:17:46,230
it's a boy kind of thing generally

315
00:17:51,740 --> 00:17:49,020
speaking I looked at this you know

316
00:17:54,650 --> 00:17:51,750
reddened area where ever I had torn off

317
00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:54,660
some skin and thought wow what a scab

318
00:18:03,190 --> 00:17:57,030
that's gonna make you know like a boy's

319
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:08,630
exactly so I then look around my

320
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:10,890
sister's not there and and I should also

321
00:18:17,230 --> 00:18:13,679
stress here anybody that's grown up or

322
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:17,240
lived in a small village knows that

323
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:18,960
experience

324
00:18:27,230 --> 00:18:23,250
certain day it's just you there are no

325
00:18:29,660 --> 00:18:27,240
kids out playing nobody's driving by no

326
00:18:31,730 --> 00:18:29,670
ice-cream truck no the old-fashioned

327
00:18:40,060 --> 00:18:31,740
knife sharpeners truck this is a whole

328
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:40,070
nother era mmm you're just you and I

329
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:44,460
kind of got up brushed myself off my

330
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:46,890
intuition was my sister was in the house

331
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:49,170
somewhere and I had no idea how much

332
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:53,940
time passed I still don't and I walked

333
00:19:00,380 --> 00:18:57,360
upstairs my two sisters shared a bedroom

334
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:00,390
at the top of the stairs and I looked in

335
00:19:06,860 --> 00:19:03,810
and I immediately saw Helen in the room

336
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:06,870
with her back to me looking out into the

337
00:19:12,010 --> 00:19:08,910
backyard and I thought okay she's their

338
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:12,020
private moment fine and I walk back

339
00:19:21,260 --> 00:19:15,570
downstairs all this is so clear in my

340
00:19:23,780 --> 00:19:21,270
mind and I go to through the living room

341
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:23,790
through the dining room and then stand

342
00:19:28,730 --> 00:19:26,010
looking into the kitchen and there's my

343
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:28,740
mom at the stove in right profile I

344
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:29,970
think she's making grilled cheese

345
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:32,880
sandwiches for us I do remember the

346
00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:35,250
exact words that I said though it was

347
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:38,280
mom Helen I just saw some things in the

348
00:19:42,980 --> 00:19:40,770
sky over the Parkers house that looked

349
00:19:43,670 --> 00:19:42,990
like flying saucers from the movies end

350
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:43,680
quote

351
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:48,330
I'm sure that and my mom turned and

352
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:53,010
looked at me with a serious look and it

353
00:20:00,650 --> 00:19:57,170
extended for some moments and just

354
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:00,660
regarded me so to say like you look at

355
00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:04,770
another person seriously and my thought

356
00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:06,750
was this is the way grown-ups look at

357
00:20:13,580 --> 00:20:09,990
each other and she didn't say anything

358
00:20:17,570 --> 00:20:13,590
at a certain point it's kind of a slight

359
00:20:21,050 --> 00:20:17,580
nod and went back to what she was doing

360
00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:21,060
at the stove this EE sticks in my mind

361
00:20:26,860 --> 00:20:24,870
because it was either with bud or P in

362
00:20:30,180 --> 00:20:26,870
regression there was also a third hadn't

363
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,190
hit my sister earlier

364
00:20:33,779 --> 00:20:32,080
who was actually a friend of mine who

365
00:20:36,750 --> 00:20:33,789
had basically taken a course in hypnosis

366
00:20:39,690 --> 00:20:36,760
and had no sense of interest really in

367
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:39,700
UFOs but kind of tried out his technique

368
00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:42,130
on me I don't remember how under I was

369
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:44,110
but with bud and Peter it was very

370
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:46,240
profound and it was either one of them

371
00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:47,919
at that moment who said do you know what

372
00:20:53,130 --> 00:20:51,460
time it is and I said no they said is

373
00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:53,140
there a clock in the kitchen

374
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:56,710
I said yes they said where is the clock

375
00:21:03,419 --> 00:21:01,360
I said on the far wall kind of above and

376
00:21:05,039 --> 00:21:03,429
to the right of where my mom is standing

377
00:21:10,019 --> 00:21:05,049
look at the clock

378
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:10,029
okay what time is it 20 of noon you know

379
00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:14,799
it's just the way it is later well we

380
00:21:20,190 --> 00:21:16,630
had our lunch Helen and I completely

381
00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:20,200
silent about this right after lunch I

382
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:22,870
got on my bicycle and I made my way to

383
00:21:30,779 --> 00:21:25,600
our village library as a regular love

384
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:30,789
library still do and at the time in the

385
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:34,480
States maybe in the UK as well most

386
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:36,610
American libraries in big cities and

387
00:21:43,529 --> 00:21:40,080
small towns had all the books on UFOs

388
00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:43,539
the stigma was not yet there for

389
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:46,990
libraries in the 70s it kind of caught

390
00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:48,880
up with them and a lot of us that

391
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:50,860
started collecting books early picked up

392
00:21:55,769 --> 00:21:53,919
some amazing books at library sales it

393
00:21:58,019 --> 00:21:55,779
was considered embarrassing to have

394
00:22:01,380 --> 00:21:58,029
flying saucer books in your collection

395
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,390
if you were serious library and for the

396
00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:03,760
first and last time in my life I took

397
00:22:09,899 --> 00:22:07,240
out two books on UFOs flying saucers I

398
00:22:11,399 --> 00:22:09,909
say that because from then on I just

399
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:11,409
started to buy the mind and take them

400
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:13,120
out of libraries and built my own

401
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,640
library I just saw the terms on the

402
00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:20,559
spine took a quick look at the cover

403
00:22:24,990 --> 00:22:22,840
took him out brought him home went up to

404
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:25,000
my room closed the door flipped through

405
00:22:29,779 --> 00:22:28,510
them and much to my disappointment

406
00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:29,789
[Music]

407
00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:32,230
horror on a certain level

408
00:22:36,029 --> 00:22:34,600
neither one and they were both exactly

409
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:36,039
the opposite kind of books of what I

410
00:22:41,730 --> 00:22:39,610
wanted I was looking for something some

411
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:41,740
some grown-up text that would explain

412
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:43,210
this away

413
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:45,010
tell me what I had seen was some you

414
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:48,330
know anomaly some nonsensical

415
00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:53,110
misinterpreted and they were both you

416
00:22:57,630 --> 00:22:55,000
know my trip to Mars my trip to Venus

417
00:23:00,450 --> 00:22:57,640
kind of books one of them

418
00:23:03,419 --> 00:23:00,460
I'll never recall the exact title the

419
00:23:06,210 --> 00:23:03,429
other I will always recall because the

420
00:23:15,779 --> 00:23:06,220
cover was so iconic and it is a true

421
00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:15,789
classic of UFO literature it's I'm

422
00:23:30,419 --> 00:23:26,010
flying saucers have landed which was

423
00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:30,429
co-authored by Desmond Leslie not a name

424
00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:32,230
that jumps out for most people

425
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:34,270
interested in UFOs but Leslie went on to

426
00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:36,130
become a very respected science writer

427
00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:38,440
and of course a demske went on to be

428
00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:40,990
well it was already considered the

429
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:44,100
leading figure in the contactee movement

430
00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:47,529
anyway I would have taken them right

431
00:23:52,139 --> 00:23:50,110
back to the library if it wasn't already

432
00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:52,149
fairly late in the day they did go back

433
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:55,929
the next day and that was that now late

434
00:24:01,500 --> 00:23:57,850
that afternoon early that evening my

435
00:24:03,539 --> 00:24:01,510
sister came up to me and said do you

436
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:03,549
want to talk about this you know what we

437
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:07,360
saw and I looked at her and I said one

438
00:24:14,490 --> 00:24:11,159
one syllable word which was know well

439
00:24:17,789 --> 00:24:14,500
how do we repress memories how does it

440
00:24:21,419 --> 00:24:17,799
happen I don't know I'm a layperson that

441
00:24:24,419 --> 00:24:21,429
studied psychology where I've needed to

442
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:24,429
and have made many acquaintances and

443
00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:25,840
friends over the years who are mental

444
00:24:32,549 --> 00:24:29,020
health professionals although it's not

445
00:24:36,779 --> 00:24:32,559
well known in America it's hardly a blip

446
00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:36,789
on the map in the UK and what we used to

447
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:38,950
call Commonwealth countries the

448
00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:41,950
Samaritans International is a highly

449
00:24:49,730 --> 00:24:45,520
respected wonderful organization and I'm

450
00:24:54,690 --> 00:24:49,740
very proud to say that I was a Samaritan

451
00:24:56,430 --> 00:24:54,700
at their busiest office in America for

452
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:56,440
most of eight years I think most of

453
00:24:59,010 --> 00:24:57,010
because

454
00:25:01,650 --> 00:24:59,020
I had to take some very necessary breaks

455
00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:01,660
it can be rough work for four years I

456
00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:05,950
was simply a a well-trained lay on phone

457
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:09,040
volunteer and for the next four years I

458
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:11,050
did that and was also a shift supervisor

459
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:13,570
I was very proud of that and learned a

460
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:15,910
lot about how to function in higher

461
00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:18,730
stress and help people who were stressed

462
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:20,230
primarily by being a good listener

463
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:22,570
anyway I don't mean to go off on a

464
00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:27,250
tangent except to say most of us that

465
00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:30,760
are lucky enough to have had relatively

466
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:34,750
happy healthy lives with normal neurotic

467
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:37,650
loving families but you know minimal

468
00:25:43,650 --> 00:25:41,710
trauma growing up you know our hearts go

469
00:25:45,420 --> 00:25:43,660
out to and we can only try to imagine

470
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:45,430
what it would be like to deal with

471
00:25:49,340 --> 00:25:47,590
sexual abuse as a young person or

472
00:25:51,420 --> 00:25:49,350
something not a day passes that

473
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:51,430
unfortunately in our culture and news

474
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:54,610
whether it's just some terrible person

475
00:25:58,700 --> 00:25:56,890
or this continuing terrible church

476
00:26:02,790 --> 00:25:58,710
scandal

477
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:02,800
nature can be kind and allow you to

478
00:26:09,090 --> 00:26:06,130
deaden repress block those memories they

479
00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:09,100
come back they don't come back and I

480
00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:11,680
don't know exactly my mechanism but

481
00:26:15,420 --> 00:26:14,440
within a matter of weeks I had talked

482
00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:15,430
myself out of it

483
00:26:22,620 --> 00:26:19,720
because I couldn't deal with it I didn't

484
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:22,630
want to deal with it and over the next

485
00:26:34,890 --> 00:26:26,880
few years I started to become more

486
00:26:37,260 --> 00:26:34,900
social I developed my talents in I I

487
00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:37,270
wanted to be an artist very much and

488
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:38,980
that was my career track from the time I

489
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:44,350
had been a kid I loved to sing and was a

490
00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:46,570
member of my all of my high school

491
00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:48,760
singing groups and president of our high

492
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:50,470
school chorus and was in all the school

493
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:52,210
plays and loved theatre and all this

494
00:26:59,580 --> 00:26:56,170
stuff and moved into a world of having

495
00:27:03,600 --> 00:26:59,590
the luxury of go to art school and dream

496
00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:03,610
about that and about 14 years passed and

497
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:10,360
I can say only once in that time did

498
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:15,520
the memory of that day come back and I I

499
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:19,120
marked myself as a certain a person of a

500
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:21,490
certain era I I very much came of age in

501
00:27:29,730 --> 00:27:27,310
the 60s and before LSD was made illegal

502
00:27:32,730 --> 00:27:29,740
in this country more than 50 years ago I

503
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:32,740
had tried it and a wonderful

504
00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:34,960
life-changing experience and several

505
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:37,030
others after that but it was on that

506
00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:40,750
very first LSD experience that some of

507
00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:43,270
these memories came back in an

508
00:27:47,550 --> 00:27:45,910
abstracted way I did some paintings and

509
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:47,560
drawings which some years later I came

510
00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:49,330
upon a thought ooh that's uncomfortable

511
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:52,030
and I destroyed them I destroyed them

512
00:27:59,340 --> 00:27:55,810
interesting and then started to follow

513
00:28:00,540 --> 00:27:59,350
my dream I graduated from what I still

514
00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:00,550
considered the finest art school in

515
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:04,900
America I traveled came back was hired

516
00:28:09,660 --> 00:28:07,810
by the school taught painting in their

517
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:09,670
Department of continuing education for

518
00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:12,640
years started to show my work at small

519
00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:14,950
galleries in New York started to meet

520
00:28:19,950 --> 00:28:17,980
famous artists I know this is a very

521
00:28:23,220 --> 00:28:19,960
long answer to your very short question

522
00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:23,230
of how did I get involved but then came

523
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:25,480
an afternoon David where the memory

524
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:28,510
returned and it returned with a

525
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:32,290
vengeance and I can take time and tell

526
00:28:36,150 --> 00:28:34,090
you why I think it did

527
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:36,160
there were several factors but the fact

528
00:28:42,690 --> 00:28:39,850
was it did it bowled me over within 15

529
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:42,700
or 20 minutes I was in tears I thought I

530
00:28:47,490 --> 00:28:45,810
must be going insane because logic

531
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:47,500
dictated to me

532
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:51,760
how could anyone forget an experience

533
00:28:57,660 --> 00:28:54,970
like that it seemed impossible to me and

534
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:57,670
it troubled me tremendously and I I had

535
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:01,360
to really calm myself down and I'm in my

536
00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:05,200
little commercial loft down in New

537
00:29:11,790 --> 00:29:07,270
York's Chinatown where I lived and

538
00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:11,800
worked and I bought the whole thing out

539
00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:16,150
and thought I what do I do now this is

540
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:18,760
this is just totally taken me over and

541
00:29:23,539 --> 00:29:21,130
I'm seeing everything in my mind as

542
00:29:25,580 --> 00:29:23,549
clear as if it had just happened

543
00:29:29,389 --> 00:29:25,590
and I thought there's only one thing to

544
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:29,399
do I have a witness my sister while I

545
00:29:31,570 --> 00:29:30,990
was following the dream of being a

546
00:29:34,669 --> 00:29:31,580
painter

547
00:29:37,399 --> 00:29:34,679
Helen lived about a mile or so north of

548
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:37,409
me in that part of New York City called

549
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:42,240
the East Village she was very much about

550
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:44,480
him Ian I guess you could say as I was

551
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:50,250
at the time her focus was on her poetry

552
00:29:55,399 --> 00:29:53,730
besides graduating with a degree in

553
00:29:57,799 --> 00:29:55,409
English literature from an experimental

554
00:30:01,519 --> 00:29:57,809
College out on Long Island

555
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,529
she also regret was a graduate of the

556
00:30:07,130 --> 00:30:03,840
French fashion Institute in New York

557
00:30:11,299 --> 00:30:07,140
City and at that time this is the mid

558
00:30:14,269 --> 00:30:11,309
70s the whole punk music scene is just

559
00:30:17,299 --> 00:30:14,279
starting to begin to make its presence

560
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:17,309
known and literally explode into popular

561
00:30:23,299 --> 00:30:20,880
culture within months and Helen was her

562
00:30:26,419 --> 00:30:23,309
boyfriend at the time still one of my

563
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:26,429
dearest friends a great musician named

564
00:30:31,310 --> 00:30:29,010
Albert Bouchard who is the original

565
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:31,320
drummer for the great heavy metal group

566
00:30:38,180 --> 00:30:35,370
the Blue Oyster Cult and Albert

567
00:30:40,610 --> 00:30:38,190
suggested that he takes some of her

568
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:40,620
poetry and put it to music which this is

569
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:43,710
just the following year see if the guys

570
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:45,570
liked it went on an album album went

571
00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:47,570
gold album went platinum Helen became a

572
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:49,620
singer/songwriter in the rest is history

573
00:30:54,019 --> 00:30:53,130
but at that moment she was poor as a

574
00:30:56,570 --> 00:30:54,029
Churchmouse

575
00:30:59,899 --> 00:30:56,580
living in a hundred and fifty year old

576
00:31:01,789 --> 00:30:59,909
tenement walk-up death floor and I

577
00:31:04,010 --> 00:31:01,799
called him and I said are you busy is

578
00:31:07,130 --> 00:31:04,020
this a good time to talk

579
00:31:09,649 --> 00:31:07,140
no everything good I said I have a

580
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:09,659
situation here and I need your help

581
00:31:14,899 --> 00:31:11,610
I have remembered something that

582
00:31:16,850 --> 00:31:14,909
happened when we were kids and I need to

583
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:16,860
know if you remember the same thing or

584
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:19,610
something different or not at all and I

585
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:23,039
thought this out enough that I've

586
00:31:28,519 --> 00:31:24,720
realized if I just tell you what I

587
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:28,529
remember you'll say yes or no or some

588
00:31:33,019 --> 00:31:30,480
variation on that but I'll really never

589
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:33,029
know it my aunt if indeed you remember

590
00:31:36,669 --> 00:31:34,980
what I remember she said I understand I

591
00:31:40,539 --> 00:31:36,679
said so let me set

592
00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:40,549
Sene and david i started to describe the

593
00:31:48,879 --> 00:31:45,230
weather where we were standing on the

594
00:31:51,220 --> 00:31:48,889
front lawn of our house how close we

595
00:31:52,690 --> 00:31:51,230
were to each other in proximity to one

596
00:31:55,509 --> 00:31:52,700
of mother's little Gardens and she

597
00:31:56,769 --> 00:31:55,519
stopped me mid-sentence and laughing

598
00:31:59,889 --> 00:31:56,779
said stop I know what you're talking

599
00:32:03,489 --> 00:31:59,899
about and I said okay what and she

600
00:32:05,259 --> 00:32:03,499
proceeded to tell me essentially what

601
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:05,269
I've told you

602
00:32:11,769 --> 00:32:09,110
with very little variation what was

603
00:32:14,919 --> 00:32:11,779
different well she wasn't sure whether

604
00:32:18,549 --> 00:32:14,929
it was five or six of these things that

605
00:32:20,970 --> 00:32:18,559
we saw which shortly after we got off

606
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:20,980
the phone on that first conversation I

607
00:32:29,230 --> 00:32:25,850
sat down you know I'm working artists to

608
00:32:31,989 --> 00:32:29,240
new york in living in my studio and did

609
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:31,999
my very first work of art involving UFOs

610
00:32:38,259 --> 00:32:35,450
it was an oil painting on paper of six

611
00:32:41,049 --> 00:32:38,269
of them so that i could show it to her

612
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:41,059
and cover the one at the lower right

613
00:32:50,289 --> 00:32:44,809
with my hand and say this still have

614
00:32:53,739 --> 00:32:50,299
that painting and after she told me what

615
00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:53,749
she remembered i had a moment of split

616
00:32:59,019 --> 00:32:56,809
I can only say elation and anxiety it's

617
00:33:04,960 --> 00:32:59,029
it was essentially a moment of oh my god

618
00:33:07,690 --> 00:33:04,970
they're real oh my god it was real and

619
00:33:09,850 --> 00:33:07,700
then she said something that if that

620
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:09,860
hadn't been enough and completely

621
00:33:14,019 --> 00:33:11,529
changed my life forever

622
00:33:16,749 --> 00:33:14,029
totally blew me off my career track

623
00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:16,759
which I still harbor certain amount of

624
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:19,580
resentment toward but that's the way it

625
00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:22,159
was and I said but there's more and

626
00:33:27,129 --> 00:33:24,529
we're to the effect of I'm not sure how

627
00:33:34,989 --> 00:33:27,139
you're gonna feel about this this is

628
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:34,999
again 1975 and the only references to

629
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:39,049
abduction UFO abduction in popular

630
00:33:44,889 --> 00:33:42,799
culture even in organized UFO studies

631
00:33:47,649 --> 00:33:44,899
were confined to the Betty and Barney

632
00:33:49,730 --> 00:33:47,659
Hill case a few other lesser known

633
00:33:55,730 --> 00:33:49,740
allegations

634
00:34:00,200 --> 00:33:55,740
there were one or two books that well

635
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:00,210
again the hill case happened in 61 which

636
00:34:05,390 --> 00:34:03,600
I think we both thought was the year

637
00:34:09,379 --> 00:34:05,400
that this happened to us but it didn't

638
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:09,389
become public till 65 and you know one

639
00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:11,490
could argue that in those intervening 14

640
00:34:17,540 --> 00:34:13,470
years for me I had heard things that I

641
00:34:19,820 --> 00:34:17,550
hadn't paid attention to but she started

642
00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:19,830
to describe her experience of that

643
00:34:27,230 --> 00:34:23,129
afternoon and it blew my mind quite

644
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:27,240
simply I should stress here that my

645
00:34:33,379 --> 00:34:30,270
sister and I were not just siblings we

646
00:34:35,899 --> 00:34:33,389
were extremely close friends had been

647
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:35,909
you know there's always that goofy rough

648
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:39,690
patch at a certain point but we were

649
00:34:45,050 --> 00:34:41,280
devoted to each other we were both

650
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:45,060
artists we were both writers we both

651
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:47,010
like watching you know bad movies and

652
00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:51,210
smoking a lot of pot we both excelled in

653
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:53,700
our various fields we had a lot of

654
00:35:00,590 --> 00:34:56,700
friends in common we were there for each

655
00:35:02,599 --> 00:35:00,600
other all through our lives emotionally

656
00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:02,609
financially whoever was doing better

657
00:35:08,060 --> 00:35:06,150
than one and we didn't lie to each other

658
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:08,070
and we were we were very close friends

659
00:35:15,050 --> 00:35:11,520
and out of well know where in a sense

660
00:35:17,090 --> 00:35:15,060
she starts talking about she remembered

661
00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:17,100
that moment where I kind of peeled off

662
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:19,020
to the right and disappeared from her

663
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:21,210
peripheral vision and she said I knew

664
00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:23,040
you were running into the house to tell

665
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:25,260
Mom what else could it be she said but

666
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:27,570
as far as I was concerned this was the

667
00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:30,170
most fascinating thing I had ever seen

668
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:33,900
I wasn't scared or anxious which many

669
00:35:40,910 --> 00:35:37,680
years later a marvelous mental health

670
00:35:44,090 --> 00:35:40,920
professional who I had gone into therapy

671
00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:44,100
with in great part to reconcile the

672
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:46,980
split in my reality at that point of

673
00:35:51,970 --> 00:35:49,920
this obsession with this subject and not

674
00:35:56,060 --> 00:35:51,980
being able to talk about it or whatever

675
00:35:59,000 --> 00:35:56,070
as well as a very favorite professor at

676
00:36:01,940 --> 00:35:59,010
New York University of mine explained to

677
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:01,950
me that part of the difference between

678
00:36:07,099 --> 00:36:03,210
Helen and I

679
00:36:12,380 --> 00:36:07,109
and our experience of that that day was

680
00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:12,390
my anxiety was informed by you know

681
00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:14,220
wanting to be accepted and wanted to be

682
00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:15,750
one of the cool kids and wanting to have

683
00:36:20,839 --> 00:36:18,390
nicer clothing and have a girlfriend

684
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:20,849
Helen was still you know one step away

685
00:36:28,460 --> 00:36:23,450
from imaginary friends and childhood

686
00:36:30,109 --> 00:36:28,470
true childhood reality and for her it

687
00:36:34,849 --> 00:36:30,119
was just wonderful

688
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:34,859
and she said all these years that have

689
00:36:42,109 --> 00:36:38,480
passed I've reflected on this you know

690
00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:42,119
often several times a week it's always

691
00:36:46,070 --> 00:36:44,670
just you know right there I said what do

692
00:36:48,530 --> 00:36:46,080
you what have you thought about it all

693
00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:48,540
these years when you think about it she

694
00:36:54,140 --> 00:36:50,760
said basically that it was the most

695
00:36:58,370 --> 00:36:54,150
amazing thing I ever saw and that it

696
00:36:59,420 --> 00:36:58,380
made me feel special but I remember as

697
00:37:03,079 --> 00:36:59,430
you peeled away

698
00:37:05,540 --> 00:37:03,089
I saw something that even as a kid I

699
00:37:12,170 --> 00:37:05,550
knew wasn't possible but I remember it

700
00:37:15,230 --> 00:37:12,180
and what was that she said a blue beam

701
00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:15,240
of light shooting out of the bottom of

702
00:37:24,530 --> 00:37:19,580
one of these things and I turned a

703
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:24,540
matter of seconds I turn to see you in

704
00:37:29,660 --> 00:37:27,900
that beam of light I know you can't see

705
00:37:32,089 --> 00:37:29,670
like a flashlight beam during the day

706
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:32,099
you can see the spot on the wall but

707
00:37:38,210 --> 00:37:34,890
it's only like at night in the fog where

708
00:37:40,339 --> 00:37:38,220
you can see that line you know it's not

709
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:40,349
an uncommon phenomena in the UK where

710
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:42,720
fog occasionally happens and if you shot

711
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:46,170
like at night you can see that line

712
00:37:50,839 --> 00:37:48,510
because the light is catching on

713
00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:50,849
billions of micro droplets of water

714
00:37:57,310 --> 00:37:53,550
she said however that's what I saw then

715
00:38:02,839 --> 00:37:57,320
the light went off you went down and I

716
00:38:05,390 --> 00:38:02,849
went up I said pardon she said I simply

717
00:38:08,660 --> 00:38:05,400
lifted off the ground no fear no anxiety

718
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:08,670
it was just amazingly cool and I started

719
00:38:12,740 --> 00:38:10,890
to rise her hair was fairly long at the

720
00:38:16,220 --> 00:38:12,750
time she described what it felt like

721
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:16,230
blowing in the wind looking down seeing

722
00:38:24,590 --> 00:38:17,010
the

723
00:38:26,330 --> 00:38:24,600
looking up and seeing herself get closer

724
00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:26,340
and closer to the bottom of one of these

725
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:29,310
things my mind is already going oh my

726
00:38:33,950 --> 00:38:31,530
God my sister's insane

727
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:33,960
not a liar but insane because this

728
00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:36,090
couldn't accept that I had to catch

729
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:39,510
myself and say ah one and a half seconds

730
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:41,700
ago it was perfectly okay that you saw

731
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:44,310
five flying saucers over the neighbor's

732
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:47,280
house with little windows on them keep

733
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:49,170
listening and then she described

734
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:54,570
something that I have in my work in

735
00:39:02,270 --> 00:38:59,760
ufology as a investigative writer but

736
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:02,280
primarily conditioned over the many

737
00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:03,690
years that I worked as Budd Hopkins

738
00:39:12,140 --> 00:39:08,550
assistant descriptions in sort of

739
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,150
flashes that I have now heard maybe

740
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:14,400
several hundred times even from people

741
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:16,770
around the world even using some of the

742
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:20,330
same words and phrases Helen remembered

743
00:39:28,849 --> 00:39:23,609
at a certain point early on being walked

744
00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:28,859
through a metal hall kind of curved with

745
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:32,520
a bunch of little beings that this is

746
00:39:38,570 --> 00:39:36,000
years before the term grey comes into

747
00:39:41,330 --> 00:39:38,580
the lexicon in ufology or even popular

748
00:39:44,210 --> 00:39:41,340
culture now many people who are not you

749
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:44,220
know involved in this subject know what

750
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:46,650
a gray is it's not just a shade between

751
00:39:52,970 --> 00:39:50,160
black and white and she said little

752
00:39:56,210 --> 00:39:52,980
doctors with big heads and big black

753
00:40:00,080 --> 00:39:56,220
eyes that spoke to me in my head and one

754
00:40:04,210 --> 00:40:00,090
very large one and then she remembered

755
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:04,220
being on the metal table no clothes on

756
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:07,680
twelve years old with all of these

757
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:09,690
little beings leaning over her and the

758
00:40:18,740 --> 00:40:12,240
big one and hearing in her head very

759
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:18,750
clearly in English the following we have

760
00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:23,130
seen you before we will see you again we

761
00:40:26,330 --> 00:40:25,740
will not hurt you you are special we

762
00:40:29,580 --> 00:40:26,340
love you

763
00:40:32,910 --> 00:40:29,590
I have heard these same things

764
00:40:35,970 --> 00:40:32,920
and some of your listeners I've heard

765
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:35,980
them also and directly not from somebody

766
00:40:43,830 --> 00:40:40,380
else for many years and for my sister

767
00:40:45,930 --> 00:40:43,840
part of the complexity of the experience

768
00:40:49,350 --> 00:40:45,940
and looking back on it was that at a

769
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:49,360
certain point when and she knew was felt

770
00:40:57,870 --> 00:40:51,090
it was the big one that was

771
00:41:00,120 --> 00:40:57,880
communicating that she felt when when

772
00:41:02,220 --> 00:41:00,130
the words we will not hurt you appeared

773
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:02,230
in her head she was experiencing pain

774
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:05,170
and that was not okay with her she was

775
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:07,210
not fond of them and did not think this

776
00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:09,370
was a transcendently wonderful

777
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:12,310
experience was not pleased that had been

778
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:15,370
done without her permission and then the

779
00:41:20,460 --> 00:41:16,810
next thing she remembered she's back on

780
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:20,470
the ground and I'm still passed out and

781
00:41:25,230 --> 00:41:22,930
she said I knew you were gonna be okay I

782
00:41:27,630 --> 00:41:25,240
leaned down I could see was starting to

783
00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:27,640
move I knew that you were going to be

784
00:41:31,470 --> 00:41:29,350
waking up in a matter of minute at 2:00

785
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:31,480
so I just stepped around you and went

786
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:33,370
upstairs to think about this in my

787
00:41:44,370 --> 00:41:40,450
bedroom I I took all this in and as much

788
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:44,380
as I resisted it I knew there was

789
00:41:48,270 --> 00:41:45,220
something to it

790
00:41:53,370 --> 00:41:48,280
my first question for her upon her

791
00:41:56,130 --> 00:41:53,380
completing her account was how come all

792
00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:56,140
these years that you've never forgotten

793
00:42:02,220 --> 00:41:58,930
this we never spoke about it she said

794
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:02,230
very simple that afternoon I went up to

795
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:04,990
you and I said do you want to talk about

796
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:08,530
this and you said no in a way that I

797
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:11,890
understood that this was troubling

798
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:15,130
problematic upsetting to you and I

799
00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:17,770
respected that and you're my brother I

800
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:20,590
love you I respect you and one day led

801
00:42:25,350 --> 00:42:22,330
to the next week led to the next month

802
00:42:31,830 --> 00:42:25,360
led to the next year and that's why we

803
00:42:35,130 --> 00:42:31,840
never talked about it and I I came away

804
00:42:38,130 --> 00:42:35,140
from that afternoon David not at all

805
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:38,140
happy about this exchange I like my life

806
00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:41,050
the way it was I was one of those few

807
00:42:48,339 --> 00:42:45,049
people who was following a real

808
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:48,349
from childhood I was I was a painter I

809
00:42:53,799 --> 00:42:50,960
was a sculptor I was starting to show my

810
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:53,809
work I I was living in a great little

811
00:43:01,299 --> 00:42:57,680
industrial loft downtown a total

812
00:43:04,210 --> 00:43:01,309
outsider I had met Roy Lichtenstein I

813
00:43:07,079 --> 00:43:04,220
had spoken with Andy Warhol I had

814
00:43:11,470 --> 00:43:07,089
apprenticed with two famous painters I

815
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:11,480
was going somewhere my work was good it

816
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:15,490
was getting better and all of a sudden

817
00:43:23,980 --> 00:43:20,710
this railway train had hit me and I

818
00:43:27,579 --> 00:43:23,990
continued to teach painting I continued

819
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:27,589
to paint and do my work but I will tell

820
00:43:33,339 --> 00:43:29,359
you I mean this is not like somebody

821
00:43:36,009 --> 00:43:33,349
someplace else I'm a New Yorker I was

822
00:43:38,019 --> 00:43:36,019
born there I grew up in those museums I

823
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:38,029
was studying with some of the people

824
00:43:44,829 --> 00:43:39,680
whose work was in the Museum of Modern

825
00:43:47,490 --> 00:43:44,839
Art and I could see myself into the

826
00:43:50,650 --> 00:43:47,500
future that I was going to be well known

827
00:43:52,509 --> 00:43:50,660
that I was going to be a respected

828
00:43:54,549 --> 00:43:52,519
American artist that my work was going

829
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:54,559
to be in museums around the world and

830
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,930
collections and sold for good money and

831
00:44:03,130 --> 00:43:58,880
I was gonna earn my living doing this

832
00:44:06,549 --> 00:44:03,140
and live a very interesting life and all

833
00:44:09,069 --> 00:44:06,559
of a sudden I was faking it the heart

834
00:44:11,740 --> 00:44:09,079
had been torn out of it it wasn't my

835
00:44:12,789 --> 00:44:11,750
primary passion anymore and I did not

836
00:44:16,089 --> 00:44:12,799
like it at all

837
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,099
I continued again to work for some years

838
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:18,319
and then it kind of faded out

839
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:19,970
I'm beginning to start again

840
00:44:27,789 --> 00:44:23,839
interestingly and start again ironically

841
00:44:30,370 --> 00:44:27,799
where I left off many years ago it's not

842
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:30,380
a priority right now but I need to do it

843
00:44:40,029 --> 00:44:35,599
and want to do it and that is how I got

844
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,039
involved yeah a scientist it seems to it

845
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:42,319
that seems to suggest why you felt so

846
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:45,200
bad about the way things went you know

847
00:44:49,420 --> 00:44:46,490
fairly recently

848
00:44:51,490 --> 00:44:49,430
you know the disappointments that in in

849
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,500
the way things went obviously must have

850
00:44:55,539 --> 00:44:53,119
hit you pretty hard I would have thought

851
00:44:57,830 --> 00:44:55,549
we weren't gonna go too far into that

852
00:45:00,830 --> 00:44:57,840
but but you know we're we're I'm

853
00:45:02,750 --> 00:45:00,840
with that yeah well you're right you

854
00:45:06,430 --> 00:45:02,760
know I can imagine that must have hit

855
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:06,440
you like a freight train really it did

856
00:45:15,010 --> 00:45:12,000
the fact is that over the years it was

857
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:15,020
kind of its own internal drive mechanism

858
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:19,730
for years it was textbook definition of

859
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:23,010
obsession I couldn't stop reading about

860
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:25,970
it I couldn't stop thinking about it I

861
00:45:32,660 --> 00:45:29,610
couldn't stop looking into it on my own

862
00:45:36,350 --> 00:45:32,670
I was reticent to link up with other

863
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:36,360
people at first because I still bought

864
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:38,700
the original myth that yes this was real

865
00:45:44,420 --> 00:45:41,880
this had happened to my sister this was

866
00:45:46,690 --> 00:45:44,430
something that we had shared the early

867
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:46,700
part of that experience and had this

868
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:49,730
extraordinary sighting together that

869
00:45:56,210 --> 00:45:53,760
this was not being talked about that it

870
00:45:58,070 --> 00:45:56,220
was wrong that our government which

871
00:46:01,100 --> 00:45:58,080
obviously knew something wasn't telling

872
00:46:04,250 --> 00:46:01,110
us about it I became a real activist

873
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:04,260
but again I figured other what we'll

874
00:46:08,180 --> 00:46:06,570
laughingly call grown-ups that took it

875
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:08,190
as seriously as I did we're probably

876
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:10,680
nuts so why would I want to meet up with

877
00:46:16,940 --> 00:46:14,010
them but over the first year or two I

878
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:16,950
was very fortunate to connect with three

879
00:46:22,850 --> 00:46:19,650
individuals who went on to become my

880
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:22,860
mentors best known was bud and then of

881
00:46:29,090 --> 00:46:26,010
course make acquaintances in the

882
00:46:31,330 --> 00:46:29,100
research community and then all of a

883
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:31,340
sudden I'm there and I'm doing it and

884
00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:34,530
then later on geez that whole first

885
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:37,110
generation of people that I started with

886
00:46:46,100 --> 00:46:41,970
a lot of them are gone now and I I'm

887
00:46:48,830 --> 00:46:46,110
articulate I'm a pretty good presenter

888
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:48,840
of information I see myself as an

889
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:52,530
educator this is something that I should

890
00:47:00,140 --> 00:46:55,290
be doing the degree to which I want to

891
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:00,150
do it aside I see it as a responsibility

892
00:47:09,950 --> 00:47:04,130
the payoffs for me were and remain

893
00:47:11,690 --> 00:47:09,960
primarily the people that I have met

894
00:47:16,030 --> 00:47:11,700
over the intervening

895
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:16,040
decades many of them the dearest people

896
00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:20,130
in my life among my closest friends even

897
00:47:25,819 --> 00:47:22,380
some that I think of his family who I

898
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:25,829
would have never met otherwise then the

899
00:47:33,950 --> 00:47:29,940
other aspect is as somebody who learned

900
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:33,960
early on developed early on a passion

901
00:47:41,690 --> 00:47:36,930
for traveling and seeing some of the

902
00:47:44,599 --> 00:47:41,700
world and before I even got involved in

903
00:47:49,819 --> 00:47:44,609
this I had I'm sure visited 20 countries

904
00:47:51,530 --> 00:47:49,829
already on a shoestring budget but I've

905
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:51,540
occasionally gotten to travel to places

906
00:47:57,380 --> 00:47:54,650
that I would not have visited otherwise

907
00:47:59,569 --> 00:47:57,390
most notably not that I would have never

908
00:48:02,870 --> 00:47:59,579
gone to the UK I had already visited the

909
00:48:05,660 --> 00:48:02,880
UK when I got involved in researching

910
00:48:07,819 --> 00:48:05,670
the Rendlesham case but it brought me

911
00:48:09,579 --> 00:48:07,829
back there many times and many

912
00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:09,589
friendships came out of that and

913
00:48:16,490 --> 00:48:14,280
learning about this extraordinary you

914
00:48:21,950 --> 00:48:16,500
know country that you live in

915
00:48:25,010 --> 00:48:21,960
well Kingdom yeah it has been you know a

916
00:48:26,809 --> 00:48:25,020
plus for me but overall what I have

917
00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:26,819
chosen this direction in life if

918
00:48:34,579 --> 00:48:28,380
everything had been completely objective

919
00:48:43,089 --> 00:48:34,589
I don't think so but you know it's it's

920
00:48:48,650 --> 00:48:45,440
people are so philosophic about that

921
00:48:50,329 --> 00:48:48,660
everything is predestined or you know

922
00:48:52,970 --> 00:48:50,339
you're completely a free agent and it's

923
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:52,980
all free choice or it's something in the

924
00:48:58,970 --> 00:48:55,530
in-between I'm damned if I know I

925
00:49:00,319 --> 00:48:58,980
remember years after the fact my mother

926
00:49:02,569 --> 00:49:00,329
and I sitting and having a drink

927
00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:02,579
together and her reflecting back on this

928
00:49:07,970 --> 00:49:05,550
extraordinary change in direction for

929
00:49:11,180 --> 00:49:07,980
myself into it agreed my sister as well

930
00:49:13,790 --> 00:49:11,190
that had we been playing in the backyard

931
00:49:15,020 --> 00:49:13,800
that day rather than the front yard how

932
00:49:16,849 --> 00:49:15,030
different our lives would have turned

933
00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:16,859
out and I remember thinking in that

934
00:49:20,140 --> 00:49:18,089
moment yeah you're probably right mom

935
00:49:28,969 --> 00:49:20,150
and then thinking mmm probably not

936
00:49:31,739 --> 00:49:28,979
[Laughter]

937
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:31,749
something you say there's sort of crops

938
00:49:35,759 --> 00:49:33,729
in small mines was there any suggestion

939
00:49:40,940 --> 00:49:35,769
that Helen could have been had an

940
00:49:51,539 --> 00:49:45,630
my sister she did and it was in a

941
00:49:56,359 --> 00:49:51,549
location that many implant cases have

942
00:49:59,819 --> 00:49:56,369
been documented serious study of this

943
00:50:02,819 --> 00:49:59,829
fascinating creepy complex troubling

944
00:50:05,729 --> 00:50:02,829
area of UFO studies that there are these

945
00:50:08,670 --> 00:50:05,739
artificial little things that are

946
00:50:12,319 --> 00:50:08,680
inserted into various parts of the

947
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:12,329
bodies of experiencers while they are

948
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:18,569
you know taken that leave no

949
00:50:28,799 --> 00:50:23,440
scarification and the ones that I have

950
00:50:30,839 --> 00:50:28,809
seen primarily or through doctor the

951
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:30,849
late great dr. Roger Leir

952
00:50:37,049 --> 00:50:34,210
an American Podiatric surgeon who and

953
00:50:43,289 --> 00:50:37,059
tremendous courage and who before he

954
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:43,299
died some years ago was asked by a great

955
00:50:50,670 --> 00:50:47,890
number of people to remove ones that had

956
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:50,680
be they've been picked up in x-rays or

957
00:50:55,859 --> 00:50:52,930
cat scans or that they were aware of or

958
00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:55,869
they could feel you know just under the

959
00:51:01,859 --> 00:50:57,599
surface of their skin this kind of thing

960
00:51:03,959 --> 00:51:01,869
and we can speculate because it's not

961
00:51:05,430 --> 00:51:03,969
like they're you know an old pocket

962
00:51:06,569 --> 00:51:05,440
watch with lots of moving parts or

963
00:51:10,380 --> 00:51:06,579
something

964
00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:10,390
yeah decidedly digital I I guess is the

965
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:14,950
only word I can use in appearance the

966
00:51:21,150 --> 00:51:18,400
ones that I've been aware of have broken

967
00:51:24,259 --> 00:51:21,160
down into two general areas looking more

968
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:24,269
or less like a grain of rice or a BB and

969
00:51:33,959 --> 00:51:28,569
my sister Helen suffered from allergies

970
00:51:35,350 --> 00:51:33,969
hay fever would have times where she

971
00:51:41,620 --> 00:51:35,360
would sneeze a lot

972
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:41,630
as a kid and has grown up and remember

973
00:51:50,140 --> 00:51:47,200
you know part of our family history was

974
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:50,150
something that happened I don't know

975
00:51:56,590 --> 00:51:53,930
probably a year boy that maybe a year

976
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:56,600
after six months on either side

977
00:52:00,490 --> 00:51:58,010
I don't know and there's no way to

978
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:00,500
confirm it but it never happened before

979
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:06,050
and it never happened after that my

980
00:52:10,570 --> 00:52:08,450
sisters were sleeping in their bedroom

981
00:52:12,940 --> 00:52:10,580
my parents and there's me and mine and

982
00:52:14,860 --> 00:52:12,950
at a certain point I I'm woken up

983
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:14,870
because there's a light turned on in the

984
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:16,400
hallway where normally there would ever

985
00:52:22,750 --> 00:52:19,730
be and you know like a kid rub your eyes

986
00:52:26,380 --> 00:52:22,760
get out of bed the action is in my

987
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:26,390
sister's room and as fast asleep but the

988
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:29,690
light is on and my folks are there with

989
00:52:35,410 --> 00:52:32,810
Helen who is looking at me when I walk

990
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:35,420
in and I think my mom is sitting next to

991
00:52:45,460 --> 00:52:41,810
her and my my eyes immediately go to a

992
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:45,470
pillow case and a number of inches of it

993
00:52:55,570 --> 00:52:49,040
are bright bright red you do not forget

994
00:52:58,990 --> 00:52:58,420
my mom or dad made the phone call my

995
00:53:02,650 --> 00:52:59,000
mother

996
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:02,660
had I think it was a second cousin who

997
00:53:09,580 --> 00:53:07,850
was what in the medical world and I ear

998
00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:09,590
nose and throat guy that was his

999
00:53:16,090 --> 00:53:12,590
specialty and his practice was a few

1000
00:53:18,730 --> 00:53:16,100
towns over in a town on Long Island New

1001
00:53:20,550 --> 00:53:18,740
York called Garden City and the next

1002
00:53:24,610 --> 00:53:20,560
thing I knew my sister was bundled up

1003
00:53:27,250 --> 00:53:24,620
and in the car and mom drove her there

1004
00:53:30,930 --> 00:53:27,260
this is still well it's dark she woke

1005
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:30,940
him up in the middle of the night and

1006
00:53:36,550 --> 00:53:33,530
then you know around breakfast time back

1007
00:53:40,210 --> 00:53:36,560
she came and we had will talk and she

1008
00:53:42,610 --> 00:53:40,220
said he you know those devices that you

1009
00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:42,620
can look into the ears or the nose with

1010
00:53:49,180 --> 00:53:46,190
and he had examined her her nose

1011
00:53:51,010 --> 00:53:49,190
there was the blood was the result of a

1012
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:51,020
bleep that was bad enough that I guess

1013
00:53:57,789 --> 00:53:55,730
she woke up my parents and she said well

1014
00:53:59,650 --> 00:53:57,799
what had happened was she woke up in the

1015
00:54:03,279 --> 00:53:59,660
middle of the night she always had a box

1016
00:54:05,380 --> 00:54:03,289
of tissues by her bed I didn't but that

1017
00:54:07,870 --> 00:54:05,390
was you know part of what she needed and

1018
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:07,880
she said I just started to sneeze and I

1019
00:54:11,950 --> 00:54:09,530
turned on the little light by my bed and

1020
00:54:14,980 --> 00:54:11,960
I'm sneezing and at a certain point I

1021
00:54:17,620 --> 00:54:14,990
really seized hard and I look in the

1022
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:17,630
tissue and here's this little icky thing

1023
00:54:25,390 --> 00:54:22,970
it looks like a BB accepted surface it

1024
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:25,400
looked a little like a pearl you know it

1025
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:27,410
had mucus on it and it was just kind of

1026
00:54:34,990 --> 00:54:30,170
thick and threw it in the wastepaper

1027
00:54:37,420 --> 00:54:35,000
basket of course this was years and

1028
00:54:39,819 --> 00:54:37,430
years before again any of this made

1029
00:54:45,730 --> 00:54:39,829
sense right even heard the term implant

1030
00:54:49,299 --> 00:54:45,740
but yes she had one and she sneezed it

1031
00:54:51,730 --> 00:54:49,309
out in the very famous so-called Linda

1032
00:54:55,329 --> 00:54:51,740
case the Brooklyn Bridge UFO abductions

1033
00:54:59,010 --> 00:54:55,339
that but Hopkins wrote up in one of the

1034
00:55:01,990 --> 00:54:59,020
most compelling complex challenging

1035
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:02,000
brilliant UFO investigations ever called

1036
00:55:06,849 --> 00:55:04,910
witnessed the true story of the Brooklyn

1037
00:55:11,700 --> 00:55:06,859
Bridge UFO abductions I know it's

1038
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:11,710
published UK as well as here Linda had a

1039
00:55:17,319 --> 00:55:14,690
really incredible looking I've never

1040
00:55:23,559 --> 00:55:17,329
seen one like it and it really had all

1041
00:55:29,890 --> 00:55:23,569
the bells and whistles implant also well

1042
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:29,900
up in her nasal cavity and it she knew

1043
00:55:34,809 --> 00:55:32,510
it was there she could you know there's

1044
00:55:37,690 --> 00:55:34,819
a slight sensation to it

1045
00:55:40,269 --> 00:55:37,700
and she had had a cousin who was an

1046
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:40,279
x-ray technician x-ray and her cousin

1047
00:55:44,589 --> 00:55:41,930
didn't believe in any of this stuff

1048
00:55:47,019 --> 00:55:44,599
x-rated and there it is unfortunately

1049
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:47,029
the reproduction in witnessed is not

1050
00:55:55,930 --> 00:55:50,240
very good i I wish that we had access to

1051
00:55:59,260 --> 00:55:55,940
that original x-ray it's deep in the

1052
00:56:01,920 --> 00:55:59,270
archive I guess but the thing that

1053
00:56:04,410 --> 00:56:01,930
trouble telling the most was

1054
00:56:08,519 --> 00:56:04,420
she said after the doctor looked in her

1055
00:56:14,099 --> 00:56:08,529
nose he said did you ever stick a pencil

1056
00:56:18,410 --> 00:56:14,109
up into your nose my sister said no and

1057
00:56:22,410 --> 00:56:18,420
he said well you must have even though

1058
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:22,420
it's way way up but that's the only

1059
00:56:26,730 --> 00:56:24,970
thing that could have caused that I can

1060
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:26,740
think of that could have and she was

1061
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:28,690
quite insulted I mean she's 12 years old

1062
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:30,970
he was calling her a liar in so many

1063
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:34,210
words because in his experience and you

1064
00:56:37,859 --> 00:56:35,710
know his way of seeing the world that's

1065
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:37,869
all that he could imagine or visualize

1066
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:43,690
or know has a physician but yes she did

1067
00:56:52,289 --> 00:56:48,250
have one and I have been aware of other

1068
00:56:55,260 --> 00:56:52,299
cases where other people have had the

1069
00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:55,270
same reaction and a sneezing fit if it's

1070
00:57:01,049 --> 00:56:57,970
located there and it is one location

1071
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:01,059
we've documented multiple cases blow it

1072
00:57:13,549 --> 00:57:08,770
out like the same way didn't we think of

1073
00:57:21,690 --> 00:57:18,870
after I met Budd Hopkins which was 5

1074
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:21,700
years before he published his first UFO

1075
00:57:29,069 --> 00:57:24,130
book a very important one missing time

1076
00:57:32,010 --> 00:57:29,079
which not only was one of the best maybe

1077
00:57:33,859 --> 00:57:32,020
the best early book on the abduction

1078
00:57:36,809 --> 00:57:33,869
phenomenon looking at it scientifically

1079
00:57:42,779 --> 00:57:36,819
but gave the English language a new

1080
00:57:47,069 --> 00:57:42,789
phrase missing time and even in popular

1081
00:57:49,319 --> 00:57:47,079
culture many people once again who you

1082
00:57:52,109 --> 00:57:49,329
know would not have thought of gray as

1083
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:52,119
anything other than a shade between

1084
00:57:59,609 --> 00:57:54,970
black and white know that that phrase

1085
00:58:02,519 --> 00:57:59,619
missing time allegedly has to do with

1086
00:58:04,620 --> 00:58:02,529
UFO and paranormal experience and is not

1087
00:58:08,190 --> 00:58:04,630
a generic phrase free of that

1088
00:58:13,589 --> 00:58:08,200
association yeah well can see what drove

1089
00:58:15,540 --> 00:58:13,599
you into the into the the field anyway I

1090
00:58:18,750 --> 00:58:15,550
had to know

1091
00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:18,760
and drove me on for years and years at a

1092
00:58:26,490 --> 00:58:22,750
certain point the obsession aspect

1093
00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:26,500
dissipated and I was somebody who was

1094
00:58:34,550 --> 00:58:29,110
called a ufologist who also happened to

1095
00:58:37,890 --> 00:58:34,560
be a theater manager a photographer a

1096
00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:37,900
journeyman carpenter other things as

1097
00:58:43,770 --> 00:58:42,160
well but that's what I did and at a

1098
00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:43,780
certain point you kind of stick your

1099
00:58:51,210 --> 00:58:46,950
head up and you look around say well

1100
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:51,220
like it or not you know enjoy it or not

1101
00:58:56,490 --> 00:58:53,920
you're now one of those people who

1102
00:58:59,940 --> 00:58:56,500
people you know listened to on the radio

1103
00:59:03,120 --> 00:58:59,950
or read their work or see you know on a

1104
00:59:07,020 --> 00:59:03,130
documentary or for 15 seconds on a

1105
00:59:09,810 --> 00:59:07,030
television show or what have you enjoy

1106
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:09,820
it for what it is but don't get it out

1107
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:12,960
of proportion I have a real problem with

1108
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:16,930
prima donnas and people who you know

1109
00:59:24,060 --> 00:59:19,570
it's it's like one step away from the

1110
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:24,070
entertainment business and they impose

1111
00:59:34,890 --> 00:59:30,510
what they may well believe long for fear

1112
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:34,900
think as empirical fact when in fact it

1113
00:59:42,780 --> 00:59:40,720
is not and what I know after Morty more

1114
00:59:45,870 --> 00:59:42,790
than 40 years in this field what I am

1115
00:59:49,140 --> 00:59:45,880
completely sure of is how little I

1116
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:49,150
actually really know truly I know we're

1117
00:59:57,090 --> 00:59:52,960
not alone I deduced that we are most

1118
01:00:01,410 --> 00:59:57,100
likely dealing with a myriad of other

1119
01:00:03,630 --> 01:00:01,420
intelligences it's not one group I you

1120
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:03,640
know we're all familiar with all of the

1121
01:00:10,380 --> 01:00:06,250
places and descriptions of where they

1122
01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:10,390
are supposed to be from you've got your

1123
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:13,060
alpha Centurions and your Nordics and

1124
01:00:19,530 --> 01:00:15,730
your reptilians and these ones and that

1125
01:00:25,230 --> 01:00:19,540
ones I don't know that for a fact I also

1126
01:00:27,180 --> 01:00:25,240
know that in my years as a Samaritan and

1127
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:27,190
one of the things that we were trained

1128
01:00:30,820 --> 01:00:28,640
to understand

1129
01:00:34,270 --> 01:00:30,830
and it is a wonderful light training and

1130
01:00:36,340 --> 01:00:34,280
I encourage anybody who is looking for a

1131
01:00:39,130 --> 01:00:36,350
situation to do some public service in

1132
01:00:42,010 --> 01:00:39,140
their community and to consider training

1133
01:00:44,850 --> 01:00:42,020
and becoming a Samaritan even for a year

1134
01:00:48,820 --> 01:00:44,860
which is the normal time people move on

1135
01:00:54,010 --> 01:00:48,830
but the physiology of human shock cannot

1136
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:54,020
be underestimated and I many of my my

1137
01:00:59,500 --> 01:00:56,650
colleagues many of whom I respect admire

1138
01:01:03,940 --> 01:00:59,510
don't pay that much attention to it for

1139
01:01:07,660 --> 01:01:03,950
me you're looking at something that

1140
01:01:09,220 --> 01:01:07,670
challenges everything you know and there

1141
01:01:13,860 --> 01:01:09,230
are a series of things that simply

1142
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:13,870
happen auditory exclusion tunnel vision

1143
01:01:23,290 --> 01:01:18,310
dumps of adrenaline and epinephrine into

1144
01:01:26,980 --> 01:01:23,300
the blood either a focused sense of

1145
01:01:29,500 --> 01:01:26,990
denial or what we call scream memory

1146
01:01:33,250 --> 01:01:29,510
both of which are very real that there's

1147
01:01:38,460 --> 01:01:33,260
no question that some of them have the

1148
01:01:44,860 --> 01:01:38,470
power or the technology to shape our

1149
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:44,870
perceptions to look at X but see Y if

1150
01:01:52,270 --> 01:01:48,890
you get my meaning - and for me it may

1151
01:01:55,630 --> 01:01:52,280
not be that or it may not completely be

1152
01:01:58,780 --> 01:01:55,640
that because it's informed by my looking

1153
01:02:01,330 --> 01:01:58,790
into the eyes of let's say a grey alien

1154
01:02:06,250 --> 01:02:01,340
and there is something deep in my mind

1155
01:02:08,620 --> 01:02:06,260
says oh no you don't I'm not happening I

1156
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:08,630
am seeing a three and a half foot tall

1157
01:02:13,660 --> 01:02:11,770
white owl that's what I'm seeing and

1158
01:02:15,540 --> 01:02:13,670
nobody's gonna ever convince me of

1159
01:02:18,820 --> 01:02:15,550
anything of it that's strange enough or

1160
01:02:21,610 --> 01:02:18,830
that that is the image that they are

1161
01:02:24,940 --> 01:02:21,620
planting in our mind but nobody for me

1162
01:02:29,170 --> 01:02:24,950
can empirically state without you know

1163
01:02:32,050 --> 01:02:29,180
hesitation that it's X or Y given the

1164
01:02:34,510 --> 01:02:32,060
nature of the specific case indeed yeah

1165
01:02:37,450 --> 01:02:34,520
oh yeah I was talking to Malcolm about

1166
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:37,460
that last week last show there aren't

1167
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:39,050
really any experts in this field it's

1168
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:45,170
we know more about it and more about

1169
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:46,770
little bits and pieces but nobody's a

1170
01:02:52,820 --> 01:02:51,510
really expert that is be you've really

1171
01:02:55,220 --> 01:02:52,830
hit on something important here and

1172
01:02:57,530 --> 01:02:55,230
thank you to our friend Malcolm for

1173
01:03:01,880 --> 01:02:57,540
sparking this part of the conversation I

1174
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:01,890
find myself wincing when I am within my

1175
01:03:06,530 --> 01:03:03,690
own earshot described as an expert

1176
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:06,540
because it's you're an expert in the

1177
01:03:16,580 --> 01:03:13,680
unknown you you know for sure about this

1178
01:03:20,030 --> 01:03:16,590
subject that is completely rooted in the

1179
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:20,040
unsure and we know there are people out

1180
01:03:26,180 --> 01:03:22,650
there who are proud to be called experts

1181
01:03:28,430 --> 01:03:26,190
and smile and nod when they are and I

1182
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:28,440
have a problem with many of them I think

1183
01:03:35,620 --> 01:03:32,370
many of them are well-meaning but a lot

1184
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:35,630
of it goes back to the brilliance for me

1185
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:38,880
at least the first seven years of the

1186
01:03:44,750 --> 01:03:41,610
ten-year run of that now immortal show

1187
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:44,760
the x-files in the very first episode

1188
01:03:50,540 --> 01:03:47,850
the pilot which any fans of the show I

1189
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:50,550
encourage to chase down online and

1190
01:03:55,370 --> 01:03:52,530
really watch us as pilots go

1191
01:03:58,580 --> 01:03:55,380
it's brilliant in that very first

1192
01:04:01,100 --> 01:03:58,590
episode we understand the dynamics of

1193
01:04:04,430 --> 01:04:01,110
our lead two characters the backstory

1194
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:04,440
their motivations etc and we are

1195
01:04:09,830 --> 01:04:06,810
introduced in that very first episode in

1196
01:04:15,260 --> 01:04:09,840
Fox Mulder's little basement office to

1197
01:04:18,170 --> 01:04:15,270
the poster with the words that inform so

1198
01:04:21,380 --> 01:04:18,180
much of what overrides everything I want

1199
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:21,390
to believe in this case I want to

1200
01:04:23,630 --> 01:04:22,170
believe they're real

1201
01:04:25,100 --> 01:04:23,640
I want to believe they're not real I

1202
01:04:28,850 --> 01:04:25,110
want to believe that if they're real

1203
01:04:31,370 --> 01:04:28,860
they're good and because I really want

1204
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:31,380
to believe that so much I'm I'm gonna

1205
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:34,890
just that's the truth that's the truth

1206
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:36,690
and that's what oh I met another person

1207
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:40,170
who totally believed so much that

1208
01:04:45,050 --> 01:04:43,770
they're all good that that validates me

1209
01:04:47,420 --> 01:04:45,060
wait a minute I'm part of a community

1210
01:04:50,570 --> 01:04:47,430
now of people who follow that philosophy

1211
01:04:53,150 --> 01:04:50,580
that they're all good and if a person

1212
01:04:54,530 --> 01:04:53,160
has a bad experience that's a military

1213
01:04:58,990 --> 01:04:54,540
abduction

1214
01:05:03,020 --> 01:04:59,000
that's done by you know human beings to

1215
01:05:04,970 --> 01:05:03,030
screw around with the reputation of the

1216
01:05:07,220 --> 01:05:04,980
aliens another word that I'm never

1217
01:05:09,010 --> 01:05:07,230
comfortable using I fall back on other

1218
01:05:11,090 --> 01:05:09,020
intelligences more often than not

1219
01:05:13,310 --> 01:05:11,100
because they're all good and they just

1220
01:05:17,090 --> 01:05:13,320
here to help humanity but the bad human

1221
01:05:24,830 --> 01:05:17,100
how can you know that for a fact you

1222
01:05:30,230 --> 01:05:24,840
can't and this quotation that is

1223
01:05:32,180 --> 01:05:30,240
credited to Field Marshal Goering who is

1224
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:32,190
the Minister of Culture for the Third

1225
01:05:40,370 --> 01:05:37,650
Reich that as an American Jew who lost

1226
01:05:43,850 --> 01:05:40,380
relatives during the Holocaust and knows

1227
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:43,860
the story of it I am NOT a fan of

1228
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:48,810
Hermann Goering however I love this

1229
01:05:54,140 --> 01:05:51,450
quote and I've transposed it from my own

1230
01:05:56,540 --> 01:05:54,150
use which is translated as well from the

1231
01:06:03,140 --> 01:05:56,550
German as possible when I hear the word

1232
01:06:06,110 --> 01:06:03,150
culture I reach for my pistol here you

1233
01:06:08,420 --> 01:06:06,120
know about the photograph of an alien

1234
01:06:13,550 --> 01:06:08,430
looking through the window or that all

1235
01:06:16,070 --> 01:06:13,560
aliens are good or that there are 56

1236
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:16,080
different races visiting us I reach from

1237
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:19,380
my allegorical pistol because you can't

1238
01:06:22,820 --> 01:06:19,920
know that

1239
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:22,830
that means that you are wrong but you're

1240
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:24,720
putting it forward as true the

1241
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:29,250
difference is this if I am one of those

1242
01:06:36,350 --> 01:06:32,130
people and I say I really believe that

1243
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:36,360
or I'm personally convinced that or my

1244
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:39,930
own individual research leads me to

1245
01:06:48,770 --> 01:06:44,210
conclude that bla bla bla as opposed to

1246
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:48,780
this is the truth is all the difference

1247
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:52,170
in the world I will get in those

1248
01:06:59,840 --> 01:06:56,970
people's faces whenever it comes at me

1249
01:07:02,150 --> 01:06:59,850
I'm sorry I cannot tolerate and it's

1250
01:07:06,140 --> 01:07:02,160
also one of the things that in a

1251
01:07:07,730 --> 01:07:06,150
secondary kind of way gives our field of

1252
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:07,740
study

1253
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:11,850
loopy reputation or informs that that

1254
01:07:18,500 --> 01:07:14,970
caricature of flying saucers and little

1255
01:07:21,470 --> 01:07:18,510
green men wink-wink nudge-nudge that

1256
01:07:24,740 --> 01:07:21,480
popular culture to a degree still likes

1257
01:07:26,270 --> 01:07:24,750
to hold on to because if that's true

1258
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:26,280
that it's nonsense and it's all

1259
01:07:31,790 --> 01:07:28,530
explainable in other terms then I can

1260
01:07:34,010 --> 01:07:31,800
rest easy on a quiet anxiety that I

1261
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:34,020
sometimes reflect on what if we're not

1262
01:07:38,359 --> 01:07:36,720
alone and what if you know there are a

1263
01:07:40,820 --> 01:07:38,369
lot more advanced than us and what if

1264
01:07:49,370 --> 01:07:40,830
what if what if would you know I mean

1265
01:07:53,890 --> 01:07:49,380
hates the reason I think there was also

1266
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:53,900
a I'm and I say this again as somebody

1267
01:08:01,580 --> 01:07:57,119
who not just as an avid reader from

1268
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:01,590
childhood who is not just a book lover

1269
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:04,170
and a collector of books true

1270
01:08:10,730 --> 01:08:06,930
bibliophile but worked in libraries

1271
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:10,740
growing up in high school our town

1272
01:08:16,999 --> 01:08:13,730
library and when I was in art school our

1273
01:08:19,519 --> 01:08:17,009
art school library who speaks at

1274
01:08:22,220 --> 01:08:19,529
libraries whenever I can I accepted an

1275
01:08:24,260 --> 01:08:22,230
invitation fact just this week for this

1276
01:08:25,730 --> 01:08:24,270
summer for a small library in another

1277
01:08:29,269 --> 01:08:25,740
part of New York State that I'm already

1278
01:08:32,260 --> 01:08:29,279
looking forward to that I think it was

1279
01:08:35,539 --> 01:08:32,270
more an intellectual peer pressure

1280
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:35,549
within the world of library scientists

1281
01:08:42,260 --> 01:08:39,210
even in the smallest town you can bet

1282
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:42,270
that your local librarian is one of the

1283
01:08:48,440 --> 01:08:46,130
the best read most open minded most

1284
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,450
interested in the world people even if

1285
01:08:53,539 --> 01:08:50,400
they never let that left that little

1286
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:53,549
town these are active intellects these

1287
01:08:59,349 --> 01:08:55,770
are people worthy of cultivating as

1288
01:09:03,260 --> 01:08:59,359
friends people who think big thoughts

1289
01:09:06,380 --> 01:09:03,270
and who have the power to change young

1290
01:09:08,780 --> 01:09:06,390
people's minds and often do but I don't

1291
01:09:12,980 --> 01:09:08,790
think it's so I think it was more a push

1292
01:09:15,890 --> 01:09:12,990
to a good library shouldn't have books

1293
01:09:19,849 --> 01:09:15,900
on this stuff that we all know is so

1294
01:09:21,370 --> 01:09:19,859
controversial and so problematic and so

1295
01:09:25,370 --> 01:09:21,380
steeped

1296
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:25,380
Mystikal thinking in fact that really is

1297
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:27,330
one of the saddest commentaries for me

1298
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:30,960
that if enough people fall in line

1299
01:09:39,530 --> 01:09:35,850
behind a certain belief that they help

1300
01:09:41,570 --> 01:09:39,540
to make popular all aliens are good and

1301
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:41,580
you look around and there's a community

1302
01:09:45,290 --> 01:09:43,440
of people of thousands and thousands of

1303
01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:45,300
people that subscribe to this philosophy

1304
01:09:51,650 --> 01:09:49,440
and draw strength from the fact that

1305
01:09:54,290 --> 01:09:51,660
they're part of a network of people that

1306
01:09:58,790 --> 01:09:54,300
they know are convinced the same thing

1307
01:10:03,080 --> 01:09:58,800
you have something that is functionally

1308
01:10:08,540 --> 01:10:03,090
identical to the basis of a conventional

1309
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:08,550
religion I believe I have ultimate faith

1310
01:10:14,030 --> 01:10:11,610
in therefore it must be and the

1311
01:10:16,490 --> 01:10:14,040
reinforcement is everybody else who

1312
01:10:19,580 --> 01:10:16,500
feels the same look at any of the

1313
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:19,590
world's great religions where you know

1314
01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:21,360
one can say oh well there's this miracle

1315
01:10:28,490 --> 01:10:25,260
that I know confirms the fact that God

1316
01:10:30,650 --> 01:10:28,500
as I envisioned God is real but for

1317
01:10:36,590 --> 01:10:30,660
somebody who is an agnostic or

1318
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:36,600
scientifically inclined or simply you

1319
01:10:40,940 --> 01:10:38,010
know draws their strength and

1320
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:40,950
inspiration from love and family and

1321
01:10:50,210 --> 01:10:43,920
community service but is not mystically

1322
01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:50,220
inclined or a deist who accepts the idea

1323
01:10:55,310 --> 01:10:52,320
of that divine spark that set everything

1324
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:55,320
into motion but once it was so done that

1325
01:11:00,890 --> 01:10:57,810
God per se is not a micromanager and

1326
01:11:03,050 --> 01:11:00,900
stuff happens and it's not God's will

1327
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:03,060
I'm off on another tangent here but it's

1328
01:11:09,890 --> 01:11:08,010
at one of my that belief in itself even

1329
01:11:11,900 --> 01:11:09,900
supported by the belief of a lot of

1330
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:11,910
other people that feel the same way in

1331
01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:14,250
no way should be confused with empirical

1332
01:11:25,070 --> 01:11:17,910
fact it's important because this is your

1333
01:11:26,990 --> 01:11:25,080
show by the way not mine I mean is this

1334
01:11:29,480 --> 01:11:27,000
some sort of a joy of or mechanism that

1335
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:29,490
keeps you motivated in your research and

1336
01:11:41,140 --> 01:11:35,090
the investigations or good

1337
01:11:45,310 --> 01:11:41,150
well for the first decade or two it was

1338
01:11:48,129 --> 01:11:45,320
in great part what the heck happened to

1339
01:11:50,589 --> 01:11:48,139
my sister and what the heck did we

1340
01:11:52,750 --> 01:11:50,599
really see and what does it represent

1341
01:11:57,489 --> 01:11:52,760
and what are the implications for

1342
01:12:00,549 --> 01:11:57,499
Humanity I would say that over the past

1343
01:12:04,739 --> 01:12:00,559
few years given the nature of the

1344
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:04,749
scandal rooted in the fact that my

1345
01:12:09,100 --> 01:12:07,610
co-author on the best-known book I've

1346
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:09,110
been involved in I've written several

1347
01:12:17,859 --> 01:12:14,719
others has basically been proven and re

1348
01:12:21,909 --> 01:12:17,869
proven to have not told the truth about

1349
01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:21,919
his account to be a professional forger

1350
01:12:29,830 --> 01:12:26,209
going back some decades to a number of

1351
01:12:32,879 --> 01:12:29,840
things as we know that could be

1352
01:12:36,790 --> 01:12:32,889
presented in a court of law and shown

1353
01:12:38,379 --> 01:12:36,800
that it conflicts with you know ten

1354
01:12:42,330 --> 01:12:38,389
other things that he said I wrote at

1355
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:42,340
different times and my original

1356
01:12:52,029 --> 01:12:47,449
resistance to it and then a period of

1357
01:12:57,699 --> 01:12:52,039
time of beginning to acknowledge the

1358
01:13:00,520 --> 01:12:57,709
many independent pieces of research

1359
01:13:03,879 --> 01:13:00,530
coming at me and starting to read them

1360
01:13:07,149 --> 01:13:03,889
and realizing thirty years ago I didn't

1361
01:13:10,179 --> 01:13:07,159
dig as deep as I should have thirty

1362
01:13:11,859 --> 01:13:10,189
years ago plus when I I started on the

1363
01:13:17,620 --> 01:13:11,869
project that resulted in the book left

1364
01:13:20,819 --> 01:13:17,630
in East Gabe I wanted to believe and I

1365
01:13:25,509 --> 01:13:20,829
had no real reason to believe or assume

1366
01:13:28,659 --> 01:13:25,519
that somebody was already involved in

1367
01:13:29,799 --> 01:13:28,669
perpetrating a fraud and looking ideally

1368
01:13:33,429 --> 01:13:29,809
for me

1369
01:13:36,909 --> 01:13:33,439
somebody just like me would take them in

1370
01:13:39,669 --> 01:13:36,919
good faith who when they looked in their

1371
01:13:41,319 --> 01:13:39,679
eyes and got lied to would not assume

1372
01:13:43,330 --> 01:13:41,329
they had been lied to because that

1373
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:43,340
wasn't their experience or attitude or

1374
01:13:50,420 --> 01:13:47,360
character and then a period of

1375
01:13:54,470 --> 01:13:50,430
sadness depression anger humiliation

1376
01:14:00,170 --> 01:13:54,480
been a period of a year year and a half

1377
01:14:04,700 --> 01:14:00,180
of quietly and loudly in person and in

1378
01:14:07,070 --> 01:14:04,710
writing and the radio shows apologizing

1379
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:07,080
to what amounted to thousands of people

1380
01:14:14,980 --> 01:14:10,050
who because I had done such a good job

1381
01:14:19,220 --> 01:14:14,990
of selling this story and the individual

1382
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:19,230
believed it and the complexity of the

1383
01:14:25,220 --> 01:14:23,040
web of weird truths but up against lies

1384
01:14:30,790 --> 01:14:25,230
what I'm saying here is that the whole

1385
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:30,800
process has left me less than you know

1386
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:33,450
happy to get up every morning and do UFO

1387
01:14:46,220 --> 01:14:37,650
research I've been burned on a certain

1388
01:14:49,580 --> 01:14:46,230
level and 95% plus of the feedback the

1389
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:49,590
responses of the communications that

1390
01:14:54,350 --> 01:14:51,330
I've received over these past several

1391
01:14:56,330 --> 01:14:54,360
years regarding this have not just been

1392
01:15:00,140 --> 01:14:56,340
positive and supportive but genuinely

1393
01:15:02,450 --> 01:15:00,150
moving in fact the OP side of the

1394
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:02,460
downside of this period in my life has

1395
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:07,290
been how moved I've been by how many

1396
01:15:15,860 --> 01:15:10,410
people out there absolutely get what

1397
01:15:17,690 --> 01:15:15,870
happened and who understand to a degree

1398
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:17,700
what I've been through so where does

1399
01:15:27,020 --> 01:15:22,610
that be right now based on your question

1400
01:15:31,070 --> 01:15:27,030
what keeps me motivated now I feel a

1401
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:31,080
sense of responsibility to continue to

1402
01:15:37,070 --> 01:15:32,970
do what I think I do best in this work

1403
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:37,080
which is to act as an educator where and

1404
01:15:50,410 --> 01:15:44,370
when I can for me I have to categorize I

1405
01:15:53,990 --> 01:15:50,420
mean the whole Rendlesham UFO story is

1406
01:15:57,650 --> 01:15:54,000
still very real very viable very

1407
01:16:01,610 --> 01:15:57,660
important and nobody should misconstrue

1408
01:16:04,580 --> 01:16:01,620
my experience with my co-author

1409
01:16:06,890 --> 01:16:04,590
and the secondary spin-off of how that

1410
01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:06,900
muddied the waters are tremendously and

1411
01:16:15,620 --> 01:16:12,480
left a lot of people infuriated with

1412
01:16:20,440 --> 01:16:15,630
each other because the one thing he

1413
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:20,450
still does well is mislead people that I

1414
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:24,810
got to a point I realized after more

1415
01:16:32,180 --> 01:16:28,560
than a quarter of a century of a primary

1416
01:16:34,220 --> 01:16:32,190
interest in this particular case of the

1417
01:16:37,220 --> 01:16:34,230
ramifications of the details surrounding

1418
01:16:39,590 --> 01:16:37,230
the latest developments about this

1419
01:16:43,490 --> 01:16:39,600
series of events that took place in late

1420
01:16:48,380 --> 01:16:43,500
December over three nights in the UK in

1421
01:16:51,500 --> 01:16:48,390
Suffolk that I don't care anymore I'm

1422
01:16:53,660 --> 01:16:51,510
burned down on it I mean I care that the

1423
01:16:56,090 --> 01:16:53,670
work goes on and I'm not talking about

1424
01:16:58,910 --> 01:16:56,100
UFO studies in general and their

1425
01:17:00,620 --> 01:16:58,920
implications for Humanity which continue

1426
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:00,630
to drive me forward because it's

1427
01:17:07,070 --> 01:17:04,410
terribly important stuff but I kind of

1428
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:07,080
made it very clear to all the players

1429
01:17:17,540 --> 01:17:12,930
that I'm not participating in it anymore

1430
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:17,550
I I wish small well I will you know if

1431
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:19,920
there are new breakthroughs I'll regard

1432
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:22,410
them with interest I will return to

1433
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:24,290
Suffolk UK and the Rendlesham forest

1434
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:28,650
whenever I can because it's a

1435
01:17:33,670 --> 01:17:31,890
fascinating part of England because some

1436
01:17:37,850 --> 01:17:33,680
of the dearest people I know live there

1437
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:37,860
because it's part of my life but my

1438
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:42,330
private life in a certain way and at the

1439
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:47,730
same time I'm I have withdrawn from the

1440
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:51,330
field so to say ah I hope you do come

1441
01:17:59,450 --> 01:17:53,730
back some time because obviously I give

1442
01:18:01,250 --> 01:17:59,460
I live near there as well so I'll tell

1443
01:18:05,140 --> 01:18:01,260
you right now and just say to my other

1444
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:05,150
friends in the UK the past three years

1445
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:09,810
as my late father's health had gotten

1446
01:18:20,029 --> 01:18:17,299
cancelled plans to return to the UK it's

1447
01:18:22,819 --> 01:18:20,039
the longest period in time that I

1448
01:18:28,129 --> 01:18:22,829
haven't been back to the United Kingdom

1449
01:18:33,709 --> 01:18:28,139
in 30 years and it's a second home to me

1450
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:33,719
and I I miss visiting and and I even if

1451
01:18:37,430 --> 01:18:35,130
it's at the end of the year somewhere

1452
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:37,440
along the line I'll I'll figure out the

1453
01:18:41,870 --> 01:18:39,210
wherewithal and put together some

1454
01:18:44,299 --> 01:18:41,880
financing and I'll be back sometime this

1455
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:44,309
year I don't know where all I'll be

1456
01:18:50,629 --> 01:18:47,730
other than the south and London and

1457
01:18:52,250 --> 01:18:50,639
Suffolk if I can get out and about more

1458
01:18:53,660 --> 01:18:52,260
than that I will but I'll see you before

1459
01:18:56,029 --> 01:18:53,670
the end of the year as far as that goes

1460
01:18:58,850 --> 01:18:56,039
David and all my other friends and you

1461
01:19:02,299 --> 01:18:58,860
know the Suffolk Norfolk London zone

1462
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:02,309
they're down in that part of the of

1463
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:07,130
England but where this left me was

1464
01:19:13,790 --> 01:19:09,210
contemplating where do I go from here

1465
01:19:16,549 --> 01:19:13,800
and the very natural suggestion came

1466
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:16,559
right back you go back to all the other

1467
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:19,530
stuff that you were doing and continued

1468
01:19:24,490 --> 01:19:21,690
to do throughout your research and

1469
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:24,500
investigation and in the years following

1470
01:19:33,470 --> 01:19:28,010
while some of your listeners may only

1471
01:19:41,319 --> 01:19:33,480
associate me with Rendlesham and and the

1472
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:41,329
you know that story and that book I have

1473
01:19:46,250 --> 01:19:43,530
deeply investigated

1474
01:19:50,930 --> 01:19:46,260
I'm sure two dozen area different very

1475
01:19:53,810 --> 01:19:50,940
dissonant areas of UFO studies many of

1476
01:19:56,270 --> 01:19:53,820
them rooted in post-war history all of

1477
01:19:58,370 --> 01:19:56,280
them which have generated articles and

1478
01:20:04,629 --> 01:19:58,380
Conference papers and lectures and talks

1479
01:20:07,669 --> 01:20:04,639
and interviews and this year I'm not

1480
01:20:09,890 --> 01:20:07,679
kind of back to where I was several

1481
01:20:12,109 --> 01:20:09,900
years ago in terms of invitations to

1482
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:12,119
speak here they're in the next place but

1483
01:20:17,589 --> 01:20:13,650
I'm very pleased with the ones that I'm

1484
01:20:20,419 --> 01:20:17,599
getting and already got half a dozen

1485
01:20:22,430 --> 01:20:20,429
lectures coming up in the first half of

1486
01:20:25,100 --> 01:20:22,440
this year on decidedly

1487
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:25,110
different subjects none of them having

1488
01:20:32,410 --> 01:20:27,930
to do with the RFI which is fine with

1489
01:20:34,610 --> 01:20:32,420
me and I'm continuing to develop papers

1490
01:20:38,810 --> 01:20:34,620
investigations and research projects

1491
01:20:43,970 --> 01:20:38,820
that are purely self assigned I am

1492
01:20:46,670 --> 01:20:43,980
self-employed have been for about 15

1493
01:20:50,930 --> 01:20:46,680
years which also means self unemployed

1494
01:20:54,050 --> 01:20:50,940
depending on the time when it is I'm not

1495
01:20:57,770 --> 01:20:54,060
doing well financially but I chose this

1496
01:21:01,730 --> 01:20:57,780
route and you know it's it's um it's my

1497
01:21:04,670 --> 01:21:01,740
life and I think the main thing that's

1498
01:21:08,750 --> 01:21:04,680
driving me forward in ufology at this

1499
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:08,760
point is no longer an obsession no

1500
01:21:14,350 --> 01:21:12,090
longer caught up in what happened to my

1501
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:14,360
sister I know what happened to her and

1502
01:21:24,140 --> 01:21:18,050
understand it as well as I can but

1503
01:21:26,780 --> 01:21:24,150
quietly being there to be accessible to

1504
01:21:30,980 --> 01:21:26,790
people who are where I was 20 or 30

1505
01:21:33,410 --> 01:21:30,990
years ago and you know I'm an unpaid

1506
01:21:36,980 --> 01:21:33,420
consultant to a lot of folks who I

1507
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:36,990
really admire who are that next

1508
01:21:42,530 --> 01:21:40,410
generation here and in the UK people who

1509
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:42,540
we know and people that you don't know

1510
01:21:47,990 --> 01:21:45,090
who will be the names of the future and

1511
01:21:51,290 --> 01:21:48,000
all are already making their mark with

1512
01:21:53,180 --> 01:21:51,300
their first or second book talks that

1513
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:53,190
they're starting to do who only dreamt

1514
01:21:57,860 --> 01:21:55,650
of doing it a few years ago you know

1515
01:22:00,050 --> 01:21:57,870
thirty years ago for me it was oh my god

1516
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:00,060
I wonder if Stanton Friedman or Timothy

1517
01:22:04,550 --> 01:22:01,410
good would ever give me the time of day

1518
01:22:07,250 --> 01:22:04,560
and you know thinking about how chyme

1519
01:22:09,260 --> 01:22:07,260
they and so many other people whose

1520
01:22:11,980 --> 01:22:09,270
names are now legend in the field and

1521
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:11,990
were even then to spend time with a

1522
01:22:17,930 --> 01:22:15,210
nudnik nobody like me although even then

1523
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:17,940
I had a special cachet I was Budd

1524
01:22:22,460 --> 01:22:20,130
Hopkins assistant and that got me at

1525
01:22:27,710 --> 01:22:22,470
words that didn't you know other people

1526
01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:27,720
weren't able to pursue and in fact right

1527
01:22:32,900 --> 01:22:30,900
now I'm working on a talk that I've

1528
01:22:37,190 --> 01:22:32,910
never given before is to talk nobody's

1529
01:22:41,390 --> 01:22:37,200
ever given in fact that I'll be doing

1530
01:22:46,070 --> 01:22:41,400
for the first time late next month

1531
01:22:49,100 --> 01:22:46,080
at a major conference that is the first

1532
01:22:53,030 --> 01:22:49,110
of its kind although it is very much

1533
01:22:57,070 --> 01:22:53,040
modeled after the original international

1534
01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:57,080
UFO Congress which still continues on

1535
01:23:04,070 --> 01:23:01,440
under under very able guidance in the

1536
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:04,080
Phoenix area every year it has been in

1537
01:23:11,900 --> 01:23:06,690
February but this year it's switching

1538
01:23:15,230 --> 01:23:11,910
over to September the original one ran

1539
01:23:20,030 --> 01:23:15,240
for some years in a small gambling town

1540
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:20,040
in a very remote corner of Nevada on the

1541
01:23:24,260 --> 01:23:22,650
I think Arizona Colorado border I'd have

1542
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:24,270
to check but I think it touches on to

1543
01:23:30,770 --> 01:23:27,600
other states in that area and the thing

1544
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:30,780
that made the original International UFO

1545
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:33,570
Congress now rechristened in this new

1546
01:23:41,570 --> 01:23:39,210
incarnation as the UFO Megacon it's

1547
01:23:44,390 --> 01:23:41,580
going to be seven full days and eight

1548
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:44,400
nights it's not going to be six speakers

1549
01:23:48,470 --> 01:23:45,930
it's going to be a couple of dozen

1550
01:23:50,810 --> 01:23:48,480
speakers it's not going to draw a

1551
01:23:52,670 --> 01:23:50,820
hundred to 200 people it might have

1552
01:23:58,640 --> 01:23:52,680
eight hundred or a thousand or more and

1553
01:24:00,020 --> 01:23:58,650
it was a trip to do people like me the

1554
01:24:02,270 --> 01:24:00,030
speakers that were brought in

1555
01:24:04,970 --> 01:24:02,280
you give your talk you're on a panel

1556
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:04,980
discussion you know a few products to

1557
01:24:10,850 --> 01:24:07,050
sell you're doing that but the rest of

1558
01:24:14,030 --> 01:24:10,860
the time you're basically available to

1559
01:24:16,730 --> 01:24:14,040
anybody that wants to ask your questions

1560
01:24:19,790 --> 01:24:16,740
hang out with you speak with you see old

1561
01:24:22,340 --> 01:24:19,800
friends and colleagues people that

1562
01:24:24,500 --> 01:24:22,350
you've gotten to know over the years in

1563
01:24:28,490 --> 01:24:24,510
my case days who come to these

1564
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:28,500
conferences and I encourage anyone who

1565
01:24:33,950 --> 01:24:30,570
is interested in a remarkable experience

1566
01:24:36,230 --> 01:24:33,960
who is able to take the time and get the

1567
01:24:40,910 --> 01:24:36,240
money together it's very good value for

1568
01:24:45,440 --> 01:24:40,920
what it is to chase down online the UFO

1569
01:24:47,870 --> 01:24:45,450
Megacon and check it out and join us if

1570
01:24:52,420 --> 01:24:47,880
you possibly can but the talk is going

1571
01:24:55,729 --> 01:24:52,430
to be on Budd Hopkins work with children

1572
01:24:59,870 --> 01:24:55,739
this is very delicate territory

1573
01:25:02,990 --> 01:24:59,880
and one can immediately appreciate that

1574
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:03,000
you know if you were somebody who was in

1575
01:25:07,580 --> 01:25:05,130
Hopkins position the best known and most

1576
01:25:11,540 --> 01:25:07,590
respected UFO abduction researcher in

1577
01:25:14,510 --> 01:25:11,550
the world for one segment of the

1578
01:25:16,899 --> 01:25:14,520
population you were somebody worthy of

1579
01:25:19,189 --> 01:25:16,909
tremendous respect and admiration for a

1580
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:19,199
larger section of the population that

1581
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:22,320
just you know stumbled on that there's

1582
01:25:27,379 --> 01:25:24,510
this person who's a professional painter

1583
01:25:30,109 --> 01:25:27,389
who you know works with people who think

1584
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:30,119
they've been abducted by aliens and in

1585
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:32,690
some cases has you know work with people

1586
01:25:39,620 --> 01:25:36,449
always with the parents handy closeby

1587
01:25:42,260 --> 01:25:39,630
and as often as possible with mental

1588
01:25:44,450 --> 01:25:42,270
health professionals this person should

1589
01:25:48,260 --> 01:25:44,460
be in jail you know this is crazy

1590
01:25:51,260 --> 01:25:48,270
double crazy and dangerous however he

1591
01:25:54,410 --> 01:25:51,270
did a remarkable job of it and I was at

1592
01:25:56,870 --> 01:25:54,420
his side in a number of cases and what

1593
01:25:59,359 --> 01:25:56,880
kind of sparked my going off on this

1594
01:26:02,720 --> 01:25:59,369
tangent rather than going back into

1595
01:26:06,319 --> 01:26:02,730
abduction Studies per se as well as

1596
01:26:08,870 --> 01:26:06,329
continuing to expand my work on on

1597
01:26:11,780 --> 01:26:08,880
America's for Secretary of Defense James

1598
01:26:15,830 --> 01:26:11,790
Forrestal who was murdered an early

1599
01:26:19,899 --> 01:26:15,840
casualty of the UFO cover-up working on

1600
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:19,909
a research project involving cults and

1601
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:27,449
UFOs which is very troubling area twenty

1602
01:26:31,010 --> 01:26:28,770
years ago

1603
01:26:34,069 --> 01:26:31,020
I work for a multimedia company in New

1604
01:26:36,410 --> 01:26:34,079
York City that had optioned all of the

1605
01:26:38,419 --> 01:26:36,420
lectures of a long defunct UFO

1606
01:26:41,450 --> 01:26:38,429
conference now is called the Omega

1607
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:41,460
conference it was held in a town called

1608
01:26:46,209 --> 01:26:43,290
North Haven Connecticut and it ran for

1609
01:26:49,189 --> 01:26:46,219
ten years and over those ten years

1610
01:26:51,709 --> 01:26:49,199
anybody who everybody was anybody in the

1611
01:26:56,629 --> 01:26:51,719
work spoke there and they ended up with

1612
01:27:02,350 --> 01:26:56,639
a catalogue of tapes that was the rights

1613
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:02,360
to or purchased by my boss I oversaw six

1614
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:05,730
lectures being put on VHS tapes that's

1615
01:27:11,530 --> 01:27:07,610
how long ago it was and

1616
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:11,540
one of them was a talk by Bud given in

1617
01:27:17,770 --> 01:27:12,650
the early 90s

1618
01:27:20,020 --> 01:27:17,780
on children the youngest abductors to

1619
01:27:22,180 --> 01:27:20,030
the best of my knowledge it was the only

1620
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:22,190
time he ever gave the public talk on

1621
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:23,840
that of the hundreds of talks that he

1622
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:26,770
gave on that specific subject and so

1623
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:30,530
several months ago kind of just wanting

1624
01:27:36,220 --> 01:27:34,130
to focus in on this because it is

1625
01:27:40,180 --> 01:27:36,230
important work and had never been really

1626
01:27:43,780 --> 01:27:40,190
aired in a public way that tape didn't

1627
01:27:48,130 --> 01:27:43,790
sell a lot I met with my old employers

1628
01:27:51,820 --> 01:27:48,140
who still held the copyright on that

1629
01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:51,830
lecture and said we're on good terms

1630
01:27:57,880 --> 01:27:56,090
what would it take for me to acquire the

1631
01:28:02,500 --> 01:27:57,890
rights to that tape so I can use

1632
01:28:04,690 --> 01:28:02,510
excerpts of it in my talk that might

1633
01:28:06,580 --> 01:28:04,700
just be with your permission but ideally

1634
01:28:07,770 --> 01:28:06,590
to make it available to the public there

1635
01:28:11,140 --> 01:28:07,780
are people out there especially

1636
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:11,150
researchers and experiencers who might

1637
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:14,080
want to have access to it and they

1638
01:28:19,870 --> 01:28:17,090
incredibly generously simply gave me the

1639
01:28:23,260 --> 01:28:19,880
rights and so I immediately had it

1640
01:28:25,150 --> 01:28:23,270
transposed to DVD have been going

1641
01:28:29,860 --> 01:28:25,160
through a lot of my notes and records

1642
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:29,870
from that time and a very precious part

1643
01:28:36,940 --> 01:28:32,810
of my research archive and it went like

1644
01:28:39,930 --> 01:28:36,950
this back in the day over the years I

1645
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:39,940
read thousands and I'm not exaggerating

1646
01:28:44,500 --> 01:28:42,650
thousands of letters that came to Budd

1647
01:28:46,900 --> 01:28:44,510
Hopkins I don't know how many thousand

1648
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:46,910
but when I say thousands I mean over two

1649
01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:49,970
thousand over the course of 15 years on

1650
01:28:57,220 --> 01:28:52,960
and off of our 35-year friendship and

1651
01:29:01,360 --> 01:28:57,230
Budd read read them of course but he

1652
01:29:04,480 --> 01:29:01,370
worked out a very simple methodology of

1653
01:29:07,210 --> 01:29:04,490
symbols to put on the outside of

1654
01:29:11,860 --> 01:29:07,220
envelopes when I hand them over to him

1655
01:29:14,830 --> 01:29:11,870
and this is all way you know not quite

1656
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:14,840
into the land of email or of the

1657
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:18,650
internet yet they were letters and they

1658
01:29:20,779 --> 01:29:20,090
came from all over the country and all

1659
01:29:24,799 --> 01:29:20,789
over the world

1660
01:29:28,100 --> 01:29:24,809
and but being very old-school had if he

1661
01:29:31,819 --> 01:29:28,110
didn't respond to them had me respond to

1662
01:29:35,839 --> 01:29:31,829
almost everyone with a simple note on

1663
01:29:37,879 --> 01:29:35,849
our stationery and send it out but

1664
01:29:40,370 --> 01:29:37,889
through stars and asterisks and check

1665
01:29:43,220 --> 01:29:40,380
marks there were certain four-star

1666
01:29:44,839 --> 01:29:43,230
letters so to say you have to read this

1667
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:44,849
this is important this is terribly

1668
01:29:51,229 --> 01:29:47,280
moving this is a case you need to

1669
01:29:53,089 --> 01:29:51,239
investigate my suggestion etc and every

1670
01:29:55,399 --> 01:29:53,099
once in a while a letter would really

1671
01:29:58,910 --> 01:29:55,409
touch me to a point where I think to

1672
01:30:00,589 --> 01:29:58,920
myself you know this is my life this is

1673
01:30:04,279 --> 01:30:00,599
my present life

1674
01:30:05,810 --> 01:30:04,289
I am very privileged to be doing this I

1675
01:30:08,330 --> 01:30:05,820
know at some point in the future

1676
01:30:12,709 --> 01:30:08,340
probably long after we're gone people

1677
01:30:17,930 --> 01:30:12,719
will look back on people like us and say

1678
01:30:21,220 --> 01:30:17,940
good for them for not putting you know

1679
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:21,230
financial security first or you know

1680
01:30:25,669 --> 01:30:23,760
pioneering an area of study that we now

1681
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:25,679
take seriously but back then a lot of

1682
01:30:30,040 --> 01:30:27,690
people thought they're crackpots and I'd

1683
01:30:33,350 --> 01:30:30,050
bring a letter to them and say you know

1684
01:30:36,350 --> 01:30:33,360
is it okay with you if I use like little

1685
01:30:39,020 --> 01:30:36,360
pieces of cutout post-its and cover up

1686
01:30:41,649 --> 01:30:39,030
every salient detail to identify this

1687
01:30:45,979 --> 01:30:41,659
person short of their handwriting and

1688
01:30:47,990 --> 01:30:45,989
just hold this in my files for maybe

1689
01:30:51,020 --> 01:30:48,000
years in the future the understanding

1690
01:30:54,020 --> 01:30:51,030
was after you're gone and perhaps drawn

1691
01:30:57,169 --> 01:30:54,030
it in a way that I can't even know

1692
01:31:02,120 --> 01:30:57,179
because I'm not going to remember on

1693
01:31:04,310 --> 01:31:02,130
this communication and he was always

1694
01:31:06,979 --> 01:31:04,320
very kind and knew that I would never be

1695
01:31:08,569 --> 01:31:06,989
inappropriate with it and thought god I

1696
01:31:12,020 --> 01:31:08,579
haven't looked at that file for years

1697
01:31:16,009 --> 01:31:12,030
and I pulled it out thought I'm so glad

1698
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:16,019
I did this even though there is no way

1699
01:31:23,060 --> 01:31:19,050
at all to trace this back to the

1700
01:31:25,759 --> 01:31:23,070
individual I still have to consider that

1701
01:31:27,500 --> 01:31:25,769
there is a person out there who you know

1702
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:27,510
this represents some of their most

1703
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:30,090
intimate thoughts should I use it how

1704
01:31:36,170 --> 01:31:33,930
can I use it what if I do what part

1705
01:31:39,530 --> 01:31:36,180
so I will draw a little bit from those

1706
01:31:42,500 --> 01:31:39,540
communications as well for me it all

1707
01:31:46,490 --> 01:31:42,510
goes back to my original excitement

1708
01:31:50,630 --> 01:31:46,500
around research and investigation

1709
01:31:53,330 --> 01:31:50,640
I grew up professionally outside of the

1710
01:31:57,290 --> 01:31:53,340
box I'm an artist my thinking is

1711
01:32:01,580 --> 01:31:57,300
non-standard I come at subjects in a

1712
01:32:04,790 --> 01:32:01,590
non-traditional way being a painter

1713
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:04,800
being a sculptor living you know more

1714
01:32:09,830 --> 01:32:07,650
than a decade eating breathing and going

1715
01:32:15,490 --> 01:32:09,840
to sleep and waking up with the New York

1716
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:18,230
distinguish myself as a creative person

1717
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:22,650
in an individual way people sometimes

1718
01:32:29,210 --> 01:32:27,210
ask me what do you suggest to a person

1719
01:32:30,980 --> 01:32:29,220
you know they're practical they're not

1720
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:30,990
going to give up their day job maybe but

1721
01:32:38,690 --> 01:32:34,410
they want to do what you do what would

1722
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:38,700
you suggest and for me it's it can be

1723
01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:42,410
almost anything in a way you can study

1724
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:45,330
science and physics and mathematics and

1725
01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:47,970
psychology or any of those separately

1726
01:32:54,290 --> 01:32:51,450
and it will assist you you can be a

1727
01:33:00,110 --> 01:32:54,300
Samaritan for a year or two or work in

1728
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:00,120
any other area where you are doing your

1729
01:33:05,480 --> 01:33:02,370
best to assist somebody in emotional

1730
01:33:08,090 --> 01:33:05,490
trouble or you can study the arts and

1731
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:08,100
just learn to think in the abstract and

1732
01:33:14,650 --> 01:33:11,850
maybe come at something from an angle

1733
01:33:18,950 --> 01:33:14,660
that a more technically minded person

1734
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:18,960
hasn't explored even if they have a PhD

1735
01:33:27,190 --> 01:33:24,930
in philosophy and science I think one of

1736
01:33:31,790 --> 01:33:27,200
the things that made Budd Hopkins a

1737
01:33:37,340 --> 01:33:31,800
brilliant UFO investigator was that his

1738
01:33:40,190 --> 01:33:37,350
mind was very independent as a painter

1739
01:33:43,190 --> 01:33:40,200
and a sculptor it was all about in a way

1740
01:33:45,740 --> 01:33:43,200
exploring the unknown and considering

1741
01:33:47,629 --> 01:33:45,750
that he grew up in a kind of provincial

1742
01:33:50,060 --> 01:33:47,639
setting and Wheeling West Virginia

1743
01:33:55,189 --> 01:33:50,070
but then went to a fine art department

1744
01:33:58,040 --> 01:33:55,199
I'm at Oberlin College and then moved to

1745
01:34:00,470 --> 01:33:58,050
New York in the late 50s at a time when

1746
01:34:02,689 --> 01:34:00,480
his dream was to become a late period

1747
01:34:04,100 --> 01:34:02,699
abstract expressionist and falling in

1748
01:34:07,750 --> 01:34:04,110
with some of the great artists of the

1749
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:07,760
time and becoming a world-class

1750
01:34:12,879 --> 01:34:10,290
intellectual a voracious reader a

1751
01:34:16,180 --> 01:34:12,889
student of ancient and modern history

1752
01:34:19,850 --> 01:34:16,190
certainly a great scholar on art history

1753
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:19,860
a very very active mind in the world of

1754
01:34:26,300 --> 01:34:24,090
politics and human endeavors somebody

1755
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:26,310
who is in love as much in love with the

1756
01:34:30,649 --> 01:34:28,290
city of New York and its history and

1757
01:34:33,470 --> 01:34:30,659
everything that made it the great

1758
01:34:37,459 --> 01:34:33,480
microcosm of the entire world that it is

1759
01:34:39,470 --> 01:34:37,469
at its best life experiences can be

1760
01:34:44,030 --> 01:34:39,480
applied in so many different ways to

1761
01:34:49,189 --> 01:34:44,040
becoming good at something in this area

1762
01:34:51,590 --> 01:34:49,199
but for me the thrill of the hunt for

1763
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:51,600
some people they're not very good one to

1764
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:53,489
one with people it's no reflection on

1765
01:34:58,580 --> 01:34:54,810
their character it's just not their

1766
01:35:02,000 --> 01:34:58,590
strong point for them they may shine in

1767
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:02,010
the library of the archive or you know

1768
01:35:08,770 --> 01:35:05,130
online searches and putting the pieces

1769
01:35:11,689 --> 01:35:08,780
together that way other people are

1770
01:35:13,540 --> 01:35:11,699
brilliant presenters and it's just a

1771
01:35:17,649 --> 01:35:13,550
matter of pulling together information

1772
01:35:21,500 --> 01:35:17,659
that they can then set the imaginations

1773
01:35:24,620 --> 01:35:21,510
and the interests of the people alight

1774
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:24,630
by being a great you know presenter at a

1775
01:35:29,859 --> 01:35:27,210
conference or a talk at a local library

1776
01:35:33,260 --> 01:35:29,869
and start to train yourself that way or

1777
01:35:36,379 --> 01:35:33,270
do what you're doing David and go on the

1778
01:35:38,330 --> 01:35:36,389
air I mean years ago this wasn't

1779
01:35:39,939 --> 01:35:38,340
something that was really easy or

1780
01:35:42,590 --> 01:35:39,949
accessible to most people but now

1781
01:35:45,410 --> 01:35:42,600
through one of the best parts of our

1782
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:45,420
whole digital revolution anybody can

1783
01:35:52,359 --> 01:35:48,090
start their own podcast you know you may

1784
01:35:55,459 --> 01:35:52,369
reach 12 people or 12 million people and

1785
01:35:58,760 --> 01:35:55,469
as long as it's something that inspires

1786
01:36:01,129 --> 01:35:58,770
you that you get value out of and that

1787
01:36:04,340 --> 01:36:01,139
you begin to understand others do

1788
01:36:06,530 --> 01:36:04,350
as well there's your drive mechanism in

1789
01:36:09,830 --> 01:36:06,540
moving forward being an on-air

1790
01:36:11,689 --> 01:36:09,840
broadcaster that you are now well funny

1791
01:36:13,459 --> 01:36:11,699
thing is you say that at the beginning

1792
01:36:16,430 --> 01:36:13,469
of the year I had no idea this was going

1793
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:16,440
to happen I was invited on to another

1794
01:36:23,330 --> 01:36:20,130
show Beca that offered a position you

1795
01:36:25,100 --> 01:36:23,340
know my own show so where is gonna go

1796
01:36:28,609 --> 01:36:25,110
from here I don't know but so huh well

1797
01:36:33,590 --> 01:36:28,619
one step at a time one show at a time my

1798
01:36:36,649 --> 01:36:33,600
dear you remember keV Alton from when

1799
01:36:39,770 --> 01:36:36,659
you met her in in Glasgow when we last

1800
01:36:40,310 --> 01:36:39,780
saw each other cat now has her own radio

1801
01:36:44,899 --> 01:36:40,320
show

1802
01:36:45,709 --> 01:36:44,909
III think of younger upcoming colleagues

1803
01:36:49,070 --> 01:36:45,719
in the States

1804
01:36:58,040 --> 01:36:49,080
Ryan Sprague is now a great presence on

1805
01:36:59,689 --> 01:36:58,050
the air right now I mean literally over

1806
01:37:03,350 --> 01:36:59,699
this week or so

1807
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:03,360
he is relocating from Los Angeles back

1808
01:37:08,540 --> 01:37:06,210
to New York City so it's a busy month

1809
01:37:11,270 --> 01:37:08,550
for him but all you need to do is

1810
01:37:13,580 --> 01:37:11,280
contact him and just say you know Peter

1811
01:37:15,379 --> 01:37:13,590
and I discussed this on the air can you

1812
01:37:24,770 --> 01:37:15,389
be a future guest and my guess is he's

1813
01:37:26,450 --> 01:37:24,780
going to say sure glad to just want your

1814
01:37:28,100 --> 01:37:26,460
chef you've got a few questions down

1815
01:37:30,379 --> 01:37:28,110
here and I'm sure sure I'm at foot so

1816
01:37:35,570 --> 01:37:30,389
we've got about another 15 minutes or so

1817
01:37:37,430 --> 01:37:35,580
I'll try to be more safe with your

1818
01:37:39,530 --> 01:37:37,440
thoughts on the disclosure movement how

1819
01:37:42,709 --> 01:37:39,540
do you feel this is progressing both in

1820
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:42,719
the US and abroad that seems to be every

1821
01:37:46,939 --> 01:37:44,610
year we hear always this is gonna be the

1822
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:46,949
year of disclosure and it's sort of then

1823
01:37:51,680 --> 01:37:48,690
we move into the next year it was still

1824
01:37:54,379 --> 01:37:51,690
doing the same yeah well even before

1825
01:37:57,760 --> 01:37:54,389
there was a quote-unquote disclosure

1826
01:38:00,890 --> 01:37:57,770
movement now I think the the figure

1827
01:38:05,500 --> 01:38:00,900
internationally associated primarily

1828
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:05,510
with it and a true leader in the work is

1829
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:09,090
Steven Bassett somebody who have endless

1830
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:11,520
respect and admiration for I don't know

1831
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:14,410
anybody more dedicated to getting the

1832
01:38:21,150 --> 01:38:17,650
truth out there even before that there

1833
01:38:27,420 --> 01:38:21,160
were it would like come in waves every

1834
01:38:31,590 --> 01:38:27,430
few years either triggered by serious

1835
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:31,600
media coverage of some case popularity

1836
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:34,810
around some cultural phenomena a leak

1837
01:38:40,980 --> 01:38:38,800
alleged leak of information a famous

1838
01:38:45,260 --> 01:38:40,990
person in the field suggested miss of

1839
01:38:48,900 --> 01:38:45,270
that that optimism would grow and then

1840
01:38:52,950 --> 01:38:48,910
you know move back into the realm of

1841
01:38:54,570 --> 01:38:52,960
just business as usual again one thing

1842
01:38:57,600 --> 01:38:54,580
that does mark the disclosure movement

1843
01:39:01,380 --> 01:38:57,610
worldwide is optimism and that's great

1844
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:01,390
you have people who have been inspired

1845
01:39:09,090 --> 01:39:06,370
by other people to take part in it one

1846
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:09,100
of the things that I admire and like and

1847
01:39:13,710 --> 01:39:10,930
support about what we'll call the

1848
01:39:17,010 --> 01:39:13,720
disclosure movement is that through the

1849
01:39:21,270 --> 01:39:17,020
tireless work of people like Steve there

1850
01:39:24,540 --> 01:39:21,280
are now chapters of folks who have

1851
01:39:27,750 --> 01:39:24,550
organized themselves probably in dozens

1852
01:39:29,970 --> 01:39:27,760
of countries around the world now what

1853
01:39:34,740 --> 01:39:29,980
they do from you know regional local

1854
01:39:37,470 --> 01:39:34,750
group to group is different for many of

1855
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:37,480
them it's simply a matter of keeping the

1856
01:39:43,110 --> 01:39:41,290
subject in the public eye of having

1857
01:39:49,230 --> 01:39:43,120
somebody in the group give talks where

1858
01:39:52,950 --> 01:39:49,240
possible of publishing around it etc I'm

1859
01:39:55,170 --> 01:39:52,960
an optimist generally speaking as I

1860
01:40:01,110 --> 01:39:55,180
moved through life but I'm very

1861
01:40:04,620 --> 01:40:01,120
circumspect about We the People you know

1862
01:40:05,820 --> 01:40:04,630
pushing the controller's of information

1863
01:40:08,190 --> 01:40:05,830
to say oh you got me

1864
01:40:17,690 --> 01:40:08,200
okay we give up here's everything we

1865
01:40:20,820 --> 01:40:17,700
know I think the the cover-up is so

1866
01:40:24,150 --> 01:40:20,830
deeply ingrained into first world

1867
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:24,160
thinking for some people let's call it

1868
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:28,090
you know deep state reality my very best

1869
01:40:34,530 --> 01:40:32,170
sense over the decades observing it from

1870
01:40:37,070 --> 01:40:34,540
a distance observing it closer up

1871
01:40:39,810 --> 01:40:37,080
occasionally having access to

1872
01:40:42,240 --> 01:40:39,820
individuals who are more deeply involved

1873
01:40:43,290 --> 01:40:42,250
or maybe more deeply involved in this

1874
01:40:47,250 --> 01:40:43,300
than I will ever be

1875
01:40:51,379 --> 01:40:47,260
is that a struggle continues on the

1876
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:51,389
inside of various working groups

1877
01:40:58,680 --> 01:40:55,770
embedded in various offices and agencies

1878
01:41:04,050 --> 01:40:58,690
in the United Kingdom in the United

1879
01:41:07,339 --> 01:41:04,060
States in countries in Russia and Brazil

1880
01:41:10,919 --> 01:41:07,349
all over the place some countries

1881
01:41:13,919 --> 01:41:10,929
governments simply have been more

1882
01:41:16,350 --> 01:41:13,929
accepting and more forthcoming Brazil is

1883
01:41:22,189 --> 01:41:16,360
a good example even going back more than

1884
01:41:25,169 --> 01:41:22,199
50 years their leadership has been

1885
01:41:27,689 --> 01:41:25,179
fairly outspoken it's it's something

1886
01:41:30,570 --> 01:41:27,699
that we don't get the impact I will

1887
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:30,580
realize the depth of in the UK or the

1888
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:34,690
u.s. because the information is filtered

1889
01:41:41,370 --> 01:41:37,810
through to us and never really emerges

1890
01:41:45,330 --> 01:41:41,380
in the major media and it's just yeah

1891
01:41:49,410 --> 01:41:45,340
this is real we're not alone and yeah

1892
01:41:52,050 --> 01:41:49,420
our Air Forces have observed these

1893
01:41:55,919 --> 01:41:52,060
things and been scrambled against them

1894
01:42:00,060 --> 01:41:55,929
and it is a genuine mystery and we're

1895
01:42:02,669 --> 01:42:00,070
not alone in the United States where the

1896
01:42:07,169 --> 01:42:02,679
whole thing began arguably in the summer

1897
01:42:10,609 --> 01:42:07,179
of 1947 and where the cover-up literally

1898
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:10,619
went into effect around President Truman

1899
01:42:20,430 --> 01:42:14,290
we have multiple layered problems one of

1900
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:20,440
which is that the keepers of the secret

1901
01:42:28,040 --> 01:42:23,170
are overwhelmingly still who they always

1902
01:42:31,589 --> 01:42:28,050
were very powerful inner circle

1903
01:42:39,260 --> 01:42:31,599
privileged white guys who communicate

1904
01:42:41,899 --> 01:42:39,270
with others in their sequestered reality

1905
01:42:45,239 --> 01:42:41,909
and if

1906
01:42:47,819 --> 01:42:45,249
it were even possible for a world leader

1907
01:42:50,339 --> 01:42:47,829
to come forward on their own and just

1908
01:42:52,319 --> 01:42:50,349
blurt it out some people think it might

1909
01:42:53,669 --> 01:42:52,329
happen I've heard people say yep it's

1910
01:42:55,790 --> 01:42:53,679
gonna be the Chinese or it's gonna be

1911
01:42:58,379 --> 01:42:55,800
Putin they're just gonna do it and

1912
01:43:02,729 --> 01:42:58,389
embarrass the United States and you know

1913
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:02,739
the UK that they didn't do it but for me

1914
01:43:08,370 --> 01:43:06,489
one of the real world problems is the

1915
01:43:12,689 --> 01:43:08,380
cover-up may involve covering up how

1916
01:43:15,899 --> 01:43:12,699
little we've learned over the decades or

1917
01:43:19,339 --> 01:43:15,909
how much we've learned that we feel will

1918
01:43:22,890 --> 01:43:19,349
freak out the general public at large or

1919
01:43:25,620 --> 01:43:22,900
let's just say that you know four years

1920
01:43:28,470 --> 01:43:25,630
ago it was President Obama or tomorrow

1921
01:43:31,020 --> 01:43:28,480
President Trump goes on the air and

1922
01:43:32,819 --> 01:43:31,030
basically says my fellow Americans and

1923
01:43:35,129 --> 01:43:32,829
citizens of the world it is my solemn

1924
01:43:37,140 --> 01:43:35,139
duty to inform you that the United

1925
01:43:40,950 --> 01:43:37,150
States government intelligence services

1926
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:40,960
have decided to acknowledge that we are

1927
01:43:47,819 --> 01:43:42,610
not alone that we've known about this

1928
01:43:51,180 --> 01:43:47,829
since before 1947 and that we're not

1929
01:43:53,549 --> 01:43:51,190
sure of the motives even yet but we are

1930
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:53,559
now going to begin to air what we know

1931
01:44:00,000 --> 01:43:56,650
and move forward you know closer

1932
01:44:02,129 --> 01:44:00,010
together as humanity bla bla bla if a

1933
01:44:04,919 --> 01:44:02,139
president of the United States were to

1934
01:44:08,029 --> 01:44:04,929
do that there to be an immediate problem

1935
01:44:11,910 --> 01:44:08,039
in terms of the American political

1936
01:44:16,350 --> 01:44:11,920
reality of wait a minute that means that

1937
01:44:18,209 --> 01:44:16,360
every other president before you is an

1938
01:44:19,799 --> 01:44:18,219
unindicted co-conspirator and the

1939
01:44:20,790 --> 01:44:19,809
biggest cover-up in human history that

1940
01:44:22,890 --> 01:44:20,800
doesn't look good

1941
01:44:25,470 --> 01:44:22,900
for the Democrats or the Republicans

1942
01:44:28,049 --> 01:44:25,480
because they're just one big party and

1943
01:44:31,290 --> 01:44:28,059
it's about having power or not having

1944
01:44:34,169 --> 01:44:31,300
power and so that's a problem also for

1945
01:44:36,689 --> 01:44:34,179
me and this is something that I went

1946
01:44:38,549 --> 01:44:36,699
nose-to-nose with about half a dozen

1947
01:44:42,779 --> 01:44:38,559
years with during a panel discussion

1948
01:44:45,839 --> 01:44:42,789
with Steven Greer who is leads the

1949
01:44:47,939 --> 01:44:45,849
notion for me that all aliens are good

1950
01:44:49,470 --> 01:44:47,949
how does he know it he can't tell you it

1951
01:44:53,490 --> 01:44:49,480
would compromise the sources and might

1952
01:44:55,650 --> 01:44:53,500
put you in trouble too well

1953
01:44:58,860 --> 01:44:55,660
and it had to do with the nature of

1954
01:45:00,540 --> 01:44:58,870
disclosure that you know power to the

1955
01:45:03,390 --> 01:45:00,550
people everything out let's get it out

1956
01:45:06,270 --> 01:45:03,400
now we are entitled to know number one

1957
01:45:09,930 --> 01:45:06,280
the we who were talking about represent

1958
01:45:13,620 --> 01:45:09,940
a very small fraction of people who are

1959
01:45:15,660 --> 01:45:13,630
alive on earth right now for some people

1960
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:15,670
in the field especially those who live

1961
01:45:20,610 --> 01:45:17,290
eat and breathe this stuff and have for

1962
01:45:21,900 --> 01:45:20,620
years who cares you know suck it up

1963
01:45:23,580 --> 01:45:21,910
you'll get used to it you're gonna lose

1964
01:45:26,100 --> 01:45:23,590
sleep over the next couple of weeks but

1965
01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:26,110
we want to know and you know the

1966
01:45:29,850 --> 01:45:28,090
thousands of us that represent the core

1967
01:45:32,790 --> 01:45:29,860
of the disclosure movement we're ready

1968
01:45:35,670 --> 01:45:32,800
okay but let's be a little considerate

1969
01:45:38,340 --> 01:45:35,680
of our fellow human beings number two if

1970
01:45:40,970 --> 01:45:38,350
we how do you dig half a hole if you

1971
01:45:44,280 --> 01:45:40,980
disclose the basics how do you not

1972
01:45:47,580 --> 01:45:44,290
immediately say oh we also have this

1973
01:45:49,140 --> 01:45:47,590
awkward situation of not only are they

1974
01:45:51,480 --> 01:45:49,150
coming and going and they'll and they've

1975
01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:51,490
got this technology but there's a

1976
01:45:57,210 --> 01:45:54,130
history that they take people and oh

1977
01:45:59,070 --> 01:45:57,220
yeah there's also this thing of hybrids

1978
01:46:00,990 --> 01:45:59,080
where they've been mucking around with

1979
01:46:03,060 --> 01:46:01,000
our DNA and their DNA and there's all

1980
01:46:04,620 --> 01:46:03,070
these beings that are part us part them

1981
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:04,630
where are they what are they up to what

1982
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:05,290
are they about

1983
01:46:09,810 --> 01:46:07,090
can't really say cuz we don't know oh

1984
01:46:13,050 --> 01:46:09,820
yeah there's also this missing fetus

1985
01:46:17,010 --> 01:46:13,060
thing where women get pregnant and then

1986
01:46:19,230 --> 01:46:17,020
the pregnancy is simply missing in the

1987
01:46:20,670 --> 01:46:19,240
later stages in third trimester they

1988
01:46:22,590 --> 01:46:20,680
wake up one morning then are pregnant

1989
01:46:25,110 --> 01:46:22,600
anymore oh they didn't just have a

1990
01:46:28,950 --> 01:46:25,120
spontaneous miscarriage and you know it

1991
01:46:31,800 --> 01:46:28,960
got lost and yeah there's a lot of icky

1992
01:46:34,710 --> 01:46:31,810
weird stuff and some of the hybrids

1993
01:46:35,910 --> 01:46:34,720
they're probably they can't walk down

1994
01:46:38,100 --> 01:46:35,920
the street because they look too much

1995
01:46:40,830 --> 01:46:38,110
like them other ones they look enough

1996
01:46:42,270 --> 01:46:40,840
like us that they are among us in fact

1997
01:46:45,450 --> 01:46:42,280
one may be living across the hall away

1998
01:46:47,670 --> 01:46:45,460
from you that guy was the wispy hair and

1999
01:46:49,710 --> 01:46:47,680
the pale gray eyes who you know it

2000
01:46:54,360 --> 01:46:49,720
doesn't talk too much who isn't

2001
01:46:56,730 --> 01:46:54,370
interested in sports may mass panic how

2002
01:46:58,920 --> 01:46:56,740
do you deal with this I don't know the

2003
01:47:02,040 --> 01:46:58,930
disclosure movement is healthy in that

2004
01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:02,050
it gives those of us who want more and

2005
01:47:06,990 --> 01:47:04,330
more people to know about it and outlet

2006
01:47:09,180 --> 01:47:07,000
I can tell you as a former longtime

2007
01:47:10,920 --> 01:47:09,190
off-broadway theater manager there is a

2008
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:10,930
certain dynamic that occurs in the

2009
01:47:18,420 --> 01:47:13,090
theater if you have the greatest comedy

2010
01:47:20,610 --> 01:47:18,430
ever done and you have only a quarter of

2011
01:47:22,490 --> 01:47:20,620
the seats filled people will be

2012
01:47:27,480 --> 01:47:22,500
self-conscious about laughing out loud

2013
01:47:31,830 --> 01:47:27,490
they need that communal sense if it's

2014
01:47:35,550 --> 01:47:31,840
not you know a number it's a critical

2015
01:47:39,330 --> 01:47:35,560
dynamic once you hit that that tipping

2016
01:47:40,830 --> 01:47:39,340
point people could care less you know

2017
01:47:42,120 --> 01:47:40,840
who says geez you are funny laughs

2018
01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:42,130
you're just having a great time

2019
01:47:52,950 --> 01:47:50,080
yeah we just so and so we are not near

2020
01:47:55,350 --> 01:47:52,960
that point yet but for every time that

2021
01:47:57,030 --> 01:47:55,360
you do a broadcast and it reaches a new

2022
01:47:59,130 --> 01:47:57,040
person I know this is just your second

2023
01:48:01,170 --> 01:47:59,140
broadcast but they're gonna add up every

2024
01:48:05,610 --> 01:48:01,180
time I give a talk at a library like

2025
01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:05,620
I'll do this summer in Fallsburg New

2026
01:48:11,910 --> 01:48:09,010
York and more people say you know what I

2027
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:11,920
do take this seriously for me the

2028
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:14,770
greatest stat is an abstract every year

2029
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:17,650
and I can say this for a fact more and

2030
01:48:22,650 --> 01:48:20,770
more people care less and less what

2031
01:48:25,350 --> 01:48:22,660
other people think about what they think

2032
01:48:27,990 --> 01:48:25,360
about the subject that was not the case

2033
01:48:30,870 --> 01:48:28,000
ten years ago that's good but it's

2034
01:48:34,260 --> 01:48:30,880
changing arithmetic Li not geometrically

2035
01:48:35,910 --> 01:48:34,270
I remember an early conversation with

2036
01:48:37,680 --> 01:48:35,920
Steve Bassett when he was just getting

2037
01:48:40,590 --> 01:48:37,690
into this work

2038
01:48:41,550 --> 01:48:40,600
a dozen almost a dozen years ago saying

2039
01:48:43,620 --> 01:48:41,560
you know you're old enough to remember

2040
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:43,630
you know all of the anti-vietnam

2041
01:48:47,340 --> 01:48:45,610
protests that's what I want to do I want

2042
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:47,350
to generate something like that a

2043
01:48:51,210 --> 01:48:48,970
groundswell that really affects the

2044
01:48:53,790 --> 01:48:51,220
population where it wasn't just guys

2045
01:48:55,500 --> 01:48:53,800
like you protesting against the war and

2046
01:48:57,360 --> 01:48:55,510
being drafted into a war that you knew

2047
01:48:59,790 --> 01:48:57,370
is unjust and illegal and wrong and

2048
01:49:01,740 --> 01:48:59,800
immoral it was your parents as well and

2049
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:01,750
then Walter Cronkite the famous beloved

2050
01:49:06,780 --> 01:49:04,810
American broadcaster and then things

2051
01:49:08,820 --> 01:49:06,790
changed I said I don't think it's gonna

2052
01:49:13,290 --> 01:49:08,830
happen like that and here's why and laid

2053
01:49:15,570 --> 01:49:13,300
out my thoughts but who knows maybe we

2054
01:49:17,640 --> 01:49:15,580
will hit that critical mass maybe there

2055
01:49:19,950 --> 01:49:17,650
will be some kind of WikiLeaks kind of

2056
01:49:20,790 --> 01:49:19,960
leak of some information that's so

2057
01:49:23,669 --> 01:49:20,800
undeniable

2058
01:49:25,350 --> 01:49:23,679
the general public will respond I wish

2059
01:49:29,250 --> 01:49:25,360
everyone in the disclosure movement well

2060
01:49:32,370 --> 01:49:29,260
but I don't think it in itself is going

2061
01:49:35,430 --> 01:49:32,380
to change the picture it will affect

2062
01:49:38,250 --> 01:49:35,440
other things that can help to change it

2063
01:49:39,990 --> 01:49:38,260
though well I do think to a certain

2064
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:40,000
extent disclosures kind of already

2065
01:49:44,339 --> 01:49:42,010
happened because of all the released of

2066
01:49:46,530 --> 01:49:44,349
all the UFO documents well that's a very

2067
01:49:49,049 --> 01:49:46,540
good point David and you know by

2068
01:49:52,319 --> 01:49:49,059
definition or philosophically one could

2069
01:49:55,350 --> 01:49:52,329
argue that the process is certainly in

2070
01:49:58,200 --> 01:49:55,360
motion and has been you know for decades

2071
01:50:00,660 --> 01:49:58,210
just among an a smaller number of people

2072
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:00,670
that that pool of people grows every

2073
01:50:05,370 --> 01:50:02,050
year there's no question about that and

2074
01:50:08,069 --> 01:50:05,380
that is international but it still has

2075
01:50:09,689 --> 01:50:08,079
considerable way to go yeah I think a

2076
01:50:12,030 --> 01:50:09,699
lot of it doesn't get released till

2077
01:50:13,589 --> 01:50:12,040
they're still holding stuff back but of

2078
01:50:16,140 --> 01:50:13,599
all the thousands of documents that

2079
01:50:21,089 --> 01:50:16,150
they've released yeah you do find the

2080
01:50:23,879 --> 01:50:21,099
Odum treasure in there you've got a deep

2081
01:50:28,799 --> 01:50:23,889
for it it's no it's not in a tree in a

2082
01:50:31,740 --> 01:50:28,809
forest and the other trouble with it is

2083
01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:31,750
okay I get it it's real it's here I've

2084
01:50:34,979 --> 01:50:33,610
got access to it I share this

2085
01:50:37,649 --> 01:50:34,989
information people are sharing it with

2086
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:37,659
me this is amazing how do you get the

2087
01:50:42,149 --> 01:50:39,610
general public to acknowledge it and

2088
01:50:48,089 --> 01:50:42,159
read it it's how do you like that fire

2089
01:50:50,669 --> 01:50:48,099
under them and for me well if if they

2090
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:50,679
hit that critical mass within themselves

2091
01:50:56,359 --> 01:50:53,530
and here a brilliant presentation or see

2092
01:50:58,890 --> 01:50:56,369
a great documentary the documentary

2093
01:51:00,600 --> 01:50:58,900
Travis the true story of Travis Walton

2094
01:51:02,459 --> 01:51:00,610
that I'm very proud of being an

2095
01:51:04,140 --> 01:51:02,469
Associate Producer on that I know you've

2096
01:51:08,299 --> 01:51:04,150
seen that it's out there now more and

2097
01:51:10,439 --> 01:51:08,309
more yeah it's a brilliant documentary

2098
01:51:13,919 --> 01:51:10,449
period but it happens to be a brilliant

2099
01:51:16,859 --> 01:51:13,929
UFO documentary it's one of the best for

2100
01:51:18,899 --> 01:51:16,869
me to loan a copy or get a gift for your

2101
01:51:21,839 --> 01:51:18,909
skeptical friend because it's

2102
01:51:24,959 --> 01:51:21,849
devastating it balances out the

2103
01:51:27,839 --> 01:51:24,969
first-hand account witness accounts with

2104
01:51:32,669 --> 01:51:27,849
the science with the FBI reports with

2105
01:51:34,050 --> 01:51:32,679
all of the supporting actual physical

2106
01:51:36,500 --> 01:51:34,060
evidences with

2107
01:51:39,830 --> 01:51:36,510
corroborations between all the sources

2108
01:51:43,340 --> 01:51:39,840
with the psychological evaluations and

2109
01:51:46,980 --> 01:51:43,350
it's very difficult to walk away from it

2110
01:51:50,850 --> 01:51:46,990
untouched if you were a total skeptic or

2111
01:51:53,100 --> 01:51:50,860
denier unless you really are that

2112
01:51:55,200 --> 01:51:53,110
terrified in yourself that you'll say

2113
01:51:57,300 --> 01:51:55,210
I'm not I'm still not convinced I'm

2114
01:52:01,170 --> 01:51:57,310
sorry then you're then you didn't really

2115
01:52:03,930 --> 01:52:01,180
pay attention but how do we get regular

2116
01:52:05,610 --> 01:52:03,940
folks who's in their heart of hearts may

2117
01:52:08,010 --> 01:52:05,620
say of course the odds are we're not

2118
01:52:11,460 --> 01:52:08,020
alone just look at the statistics and

2119
01:52:12,740 --> 01:52:11,470
the the number of millions of planets

2120
01:52:14,970 --> 01:52:12,750
that even the most conservative

2121
01:52:18,540 --> 01:52:14,980
astronomers now grudgingly grudgingly

2122
01:52:20,610 --> 01:52:18,550
acknowledged have about the size of

2123
01:52:22,710 --> 01:52:20,620
Earth about the same size from a star

2124
01:52:24,690 --> 01:52:22,720
it's about the size of the Sun that have

2125
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:24,700
the basic building blocks - depending on

2126
01:52:30,320 --> 01:52:26,770
your point of view if you are person of

2127
01:52:34,020 --> 01:52:30,330
faith to create the miracle of life

2128
01:52:36,330 --> 01:52:34,030
courtesy of God or the primordial ooze

2129
01:52:39,230 --> 01:52:36,340
that produces the right chemistry for

2130
01:52:44,460 --> 01:52:39,240
that first one celled creature that a

2131
01:52:47,820 --> 01:52:44,470
pragmatist or a scientist or an agnostic

2132
01:52:49,440 --> 01:52:47,830
would argue yeah here's the beginning of

2133
01:52:53,190 --> 01:52:49,450
the miracle of life but I just see it in

2134
01:52:54,870 --> 01:52:53,200
a different way what did it take maybe

2135
01:52:56,610 --> 01:52:54,880
we'll find out in our lifetime and

2136
01:52:58,320 --> 01:52:56,620
observe it ourselves here's hoping

2137
01:53:00,540 --> 01:52:58,330
indeed I mean it's got to be

2138
01:53:04,170 --> 01:53:00,550
civilizations out there fails of the use

2139
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:04,180
of the false of us so for hundreds of

2140
01:53:11,340 --> 01:53:10,090
millions that's before you start getting

2141
01:53:14,370 --> 01:53:11,350
into the entertainment in

2142
01:53:15,210 --> 01:53:14,380
two-dimensional argument Thank You

2143
01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:15,220
Benjamin

2144
01:53:21,570 --> 01:53:18,210
very important part of this whole

2145
01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:21,580
phenomena may not have to do with beings

2146
01:53:26,930 --> 01:53:24,610
and civilizations out there but right

2147
01:53:28,980 --> 01:53:26,940
here one or two dimensions away from us

2148
01:53:30,840 --> 01:53:28,990
living in the center of the earth or

2149
01:53:33,930 --> 01:53:30,850
again one dimension away that have

2150
01:53:41,010 --> 01:53:33,940
always been part of the reality of where

2151
01:53:45,900 --> 01:53:41,020
we are it's the mantra for me is there

2152
01:53:46,530 --> 01:53:45,910
is a Zen mantra of defining a Zen

2153
01:53:47,970 --> 01:53:46,540
beginner

2154
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:47,980
knowing that you

2155
01:53:54,180 --> 01:53:50,530
nothing and having it be okay you and I

2156
01:54:00,030 --> 01:53:54,190
David no more than nothing but it's okay

2157
01:54:04,440 --> 01:54:00,040
that we know so little okay we've got

2158
01:54:06,930 --> 01:54:04,450
about five minutes left Peter um I saw

2159
01:54:09,180 --> 01:54:06,940
you on that ancient aliens a few weeks

2160
01:54:13,980 --> 01:54:09,190
ago did you enjoy you're still on there

2161
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:13,990
I did it was wacky though the way it

2162
01:54:20,610 --> 01:54:17,770
worked was producer contacts you they

2163
01:54:22,980 --> 01:54:20,620
fly you out in my case from a regional

2164
01:54:25,940 --> 01:54:22,990
airport mid-morning I arrived in Los

2165
01:54:29,190 --> 01:54:25,950
Angeles mid afternoon taken to my hotel

2166
01:54:32,130 --> 01:54:29,200
got together with seven friends in the

2167
01:54:33,180 --> 01:54:32,140
Los Angeles area had a great dinner then

2168
01:54:36,150 --> 01:54:33,190
go over my notes

2169
01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:36,160
they had very strict instructions and

2170
01:54:39,570 --> 01:54:37,570
protocols and things they wanted me to

2171
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:39,580
read which I had for the weeks before

2172
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:42,130
preparing answers then you're picked up

2173
01:54:48,900 --> 01:54:46,570
you're taken to the studio and your film

2174
01:54:52,710 --> 01:54:48,910
for a couple of hours and in my case I

2175
01:54:56,370 --> 01:54:52,720
ended up with 15 seconds visually and

2176
01:55:00,000 --> 01:54:56,380
about 12 seconds voiceover and I was

2177
01:55:03,870 --> 01:55:00,010
home exactly 48 hours later and 6,000

2178
01:55:08,010 --> 01:55:03,880
miles later a little tired and none the

2179
01:55:09,900 --> 01:55:08,020
worse for wear a lot of people obviously

2180
01:55:12,570 --> 01:55:09,910
you know the the main players the people

2181
01:55:14,580 --> 01:55:12,580
that they keep bringing back they have

2182
01:55:16,590 --> 01:55:14,590
been telling me through one producer

2183
01:55:19,950 --> 01:55:16,600
another that they wanted me to be on the

2184
01:55:21,900 --> 01:55:19,960
shows since 2010 and I joked with my

2185
01:55:24,090 --> 01:55:21,910
producer that well they finally got me

2186
01:55:24,570 --> 01:55:24,100
and maybe next time I'll be on for a

2187
01:55:30,450 --> 01:55:24,580
full minute

2188
01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:30,460
here's hope or a toe and a great speaker

2189
01:55:37,020 --> 01:55:32,410
I'm so pleased that you've agreed to

2190
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:37,030
come on this show in my place so I

2191
01:55:40,980 --> 01:55:38,770
appreciate to Richard Dolan and

2192
01:55:43,200 --> 01:55:40,990
everything I do you see him on there

2193
01:55:50,610 --> 01:55:43,210
quite often bother you yeah you deserve

2194
01:55:52,110 --> 01:55:50,620
a spot alongside him all the time on the

2195
01:55:56,670 --> 01:55:52,120
show is a very busy man

2196
01:55:59,250 --> 01:55:56,680
much much as yourself once once once

2197
01:56:00,990 --> 01:55:59,260
you're up and running for a while I'll

2198
01:56:01,679 --> 01:56:01,000
see him in the next month or so I'm sure

2199
01:56:07,379 --> 01:56:01,689
and

2200
01:56:11,089 --> 01:56:07,389
schedule a little time for you for sure

2201
01:56:16,259 --> 01:56:11,099
B he would very guess for you I'm hoping

2202
01:56:19,679 --> 01:56:16,269
Chester in July I think so well there

2203
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:19,689
you go I'll pop over and say hello to

2204
01:56:26,549 --> 01:56:23,650
him and I might get a little chance of a

2205
01:56:28,919 --> 01:56:26,559
short interview at that point I'm sure

2206
01:56:30,750 --> 01:56:28,929
you could arrange that and you know most

2207
01:56:34,049 --> 01:56:30,760
of us make ourselves available for just

2208
01:56:36,810 --> 01:56:34,059
that sort of thing at conferences and if

2209
01:56:40,350 --> 01:56:36,820
you learn that any of the speakers for

2210
01:56:45,569 --> 01:56:40,360
the event get sick dropout or abducted

2211
01:56:47,069 --> 01:56:45,579
by aliens let them know available have

2212
01:56:58,379 --> 01:56:47,079
you got any further TV appearances

2213
01:57:00,569 --> 01:56:58,389
playing oh yeah the UFO Megacon in the

2214
01:57:03,719 --> 01:57:00,579
end of next month that's the last week

2215
01:57:07,080 --> 01:57:03,729
in March I will be at the Pine Bush New

2216
01:57:12,020 --> 01:57:07,090
York UFO Festival and conference coming

2217
01:57:15,479 --> 01:57:12,030
up in May I will be back for the Roswell

2218
01:57:18,810 --> 01:57:15,489
New Mexico conference and festival and

2219
01:57:22,169 --> 01:57:18,820
the first week of July Exeter New

2220
01:57:25,890 --> 01:57:22,179
Hampshire in the first weekend of

2221
01:57:29,819 --> 01:57:25,900
September and so on down the line

2222
01:57:33,659 --> 01:57:29,829
I keep posting upcoming dates on my

2223
01:57:37,890 --> 01:57:33,669
Facebook page and need to desperately

2224
01:57:41,759 --> 01:57:37,900
need to update my website which is my

2225
01:57:46,620 --> 01:57:41,769
name and initials of my home state peter

2226
01:57:49,890 --> 01:57:46,630
robbins NY dot-com but yeah a bunch

2227
01:57:51,689 --> 01:57:49,900
coming at me and I a lot of these links

2228
01:57:54,509 --> 01:57:51,699
go on the preneur dimensions page cuz

2229
01:57:56,250 --> 01:57:54,519
I've got a page that's directly for this

2230
01:57:59,640 --> 01:57:56,260
program so I will put a lot of that on

2231
01:58:01,709 --> 01:57:59,650
there for you great so yeah it's been

2232
01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:01,719
fantastic Peter I mean one last question

2233
01:58:06,689 --> 01:58:03,610
I've got for you sure we've got two

2234
01:58:11,939 --> 01:58:06,699
minutes yep what do you like best about

2235
01:58:13,229 --> 01:58:11,949
all the youth ology about ufology about

2236
01:58:15,420 --> 01:58:13,239
the field yeah

2237
01:58:19,320 --> 01:58:15,430
what do you like best in

2238
01:58:22,380 --> 01:58:19,330
nutshell yeah you know what making

2239
01:58:24,450 --> 01:58:22,390
contact real contact with good people

2240
01:58:25,830 --> 01:58:24,460
from all over the world that I would

2241
01:58:27,810 --> 01:58:25,840
never met otherwise

2242
01:58:30,420 --> 01:58:27,820
and occasionally getting to visit places

2243
01:58:32,010 --> 01:58:30,430
that I would never see otherwise this is

2244
01:58:34,770 --> 01:58:32,020
a perfect example getting to spend a

2245
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:34,780
couple of hours with you David a friend

2246
01:58:39,030 --> 01:58:36,010
that I haven't seen in a few years

2247
01:58:41,610 --> 01:58:39,040
knowing that this is going out to other

2248
01:58:44,190 --> 01:58:41,620
people some of whom are friends some who

2249
01:58:45,330 --> 01:58:44,200
are acquaintances some who don't know me

2250
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:45,340
that I don't know

2251
01:58:52,340 --> 01:58:49,810
but getting to I'd like to think produce

2252
01:58:55,050 --> 01:58:52,350
a positive impact in people's lives

2253
01:58:57,500 --> 01:58:55,060
address their open minds about a subject

2254
01:59:00,690 --> 01:58:57,510
that is incredibly important

2255
01:59:03,750 --> 01:59:00,700
implications for Humanity can draw us

2256
01:59:05,580 --> 01:59:03,760
all closer together and Lord knows we

2257
01:59:07,950 --> 01:59:05,590
need that especially in this day and age

2258
01:59:10,380 --> 01:59:07,960
yeah well this guy really across the

2259
01:59:12,510 --> 01:59:10,390
u.s. so hopefully quite a few people

2260
01:59:14,190 --> 01:59:12,520
will get to listen to this it gets

2261
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:14,200
repeated quite a bit it goes onto

2262
01:59:19,880 --> 01:59:16,450
YouTube so it's gonna be around forever

2263
01:59:22,880 --> 01:59:19,890
Peter well that's great and make a point

2264
01:59:26,760 --> 01:59:22,890
and once you once you've broadcast it to

2265
01:59:29,880 --> 01:59:26,770
post it on my page and the link and

2266
01:59:32,010 --> 01:59:29,890
wherever else you can so we can get it

2267
01:59:34,440 --> 01:59:32,020
out there and people will you'll build

2268
01:59:38,610 --> 01:59:34,450
up a listenership as well you deserve it

2269
01:59:40,950 --> 01:59:38,620
thank you very much Peter thank you very

2270
01:59:43,290 --> 01:59:40,960
much for coming on and spending time

2271
01:59:48,290 --> 01:59:43,300
with me and I hope the weather improves

2272
01:59:50,210 --> 01:59:48,300
a bit up there so far so good

2273
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:50,220
like the weights a couple and her paces

2274
01:59:54,170 --> 01:59:52,410
think you've ever so much on them but